Author Topic: 4032E Build  (Read 1214 times)

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2019, 10:23:06 AM »
Spent the last few days non-stop wiring, labelling, and terminating. My fingers are going numb. There is the best part of three days wiring to go, as the MRACs are not started yet.

I have developed a new found respect for Jim, as I could never do this more than once in a lifetime!!

Labelling


Half-normalling


Looming up.. a little over half complete.


Patch Bay


Matt Sartori

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2019, 11:17:18 AM »
respect! ✊

Tonemiester

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2019, 05:11:04 PM »
Total Respect!!

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2019, 10:25:03 AM »
Wiring, more wiring, and power distribution.

I had a custom made patch panel made up for under the patch bay, which has a lot of XLR in/outs on it, coming from the 651. It also has cutouts for EDACs which my studio is wired up for.

Group Out / In split to Tape out.


More looming


Console starting to shape up


Power distribution on a custom made patch panel.



horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2019, 09:51:28 AM »
Hi everyone.

I've been at home for the last 10 days away from my 'real' job, non stop wiring this up. 4am starts, going through to past midnight some days.
It is almost complete (wiring anyway), and now I am waiting on the IDC cable and connectors to do all the card links, and a few patch bay jacks to finish off!
This has been a mind bending exercise of repetition.
over 100 BICC connectors, 2 MRACs, and 6 EDAC connectors now completed!!!
Here are some photos.


Wiring station setup. This was 'home' for many days for me.


MRAC M2 cable with pins, ready for insertion. 49 signal cables.


MRAC partial pins complete. Not punched down fully.


MRAC M2 complete.


Both M1 and M2 complete. M1 only had 26 signal cables, plus power. No producer panel connections.


MRAC pin soldering jig. Just use two female pins in a vice grip, held up by a roll of gaffer.


EDAC pin jig. I found an old prototype board and some pin-end EDAC pins. Really sped up the work.


EDAC pin insertions.


EDACs complete.


Console really starting to look like a console.


I may have BBQ'd something in the 651, when a temporary piece of panel, shorted across the traces. First smoke of the build.

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2019, 10:30:52 AM »
HELP!

I've hit a bit of a brick wall here, and hope someone can help.

The master section is passing audio when patched in at the Pre-VCA inserts - bus compressor and master fader work fine, but when something is fed to the 82E26 card via the Quad Bus, then I get nothing! I believe it is a balancing issue.

Feeding a signal back through the echo returns works fine. I can trace the sine wave to the 15k resistors that drop it on to the quad bus. Then after that point, nothing.

The 651 centre section is a E series that seems to have had some mods done.
  • Quad bus input comes in to Pin 5 of the 26 card, then are bridged over to Pin 6/
  • Pin 8 180 inputs appear to have had their traces cut between each of the 26 card slots
  • Lower card quad bus inputs via the S5E, come in to Pin 6 (bridged to Pin 5), and the 0v goes to Pin 8

So I kind of have a feeling that this may have been modded for a balanced quad bus system....kind of, but I can't even get success with the echo returns, with nothing else attached to the 651 via the S5E.

Any leads would be appreciated!!!!

Anthony.





Stand completed


Console up on stand. The room is getting smaller.


Looming it up.

waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2019, 08:27:54 PM »
something (a wire) is coming off the pin 8 segments, what is it and where does it lead?

It seems possible that this is a balanced mod. The easiest way out is to remove it. To implement it would require you to make the rest of the - input buss across the console. Now is the time for that if desired. I believe Andy described it somewhere in a previous post about how they did that on the 4000. Search is your friend.

Cheers
Alan
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2019, 08:31:48 PM »
looking at your post again, I'm not quite sure you didn't answer my question with

"Lower card quad bus inputs via the S5E, come in to Pin 6 (bridged to Pin 5), and the 0v goes to Pin 8"

but I'm not quite sure what that means, I don't have a set of schematics handy.


Alan

OK, have schematics now


OK, I think I am starting to see it.

Not balanced, extended. The lower card slot is added to the buss and the ground return is redirected to that point.

pin 6 is an extra non connected point, it is added to the buss (bridged) to pin 5, that brings up the lower card buss input.

pin 8 is the normal ground reference, it is routed to the lower card slot ground reference, probably for lower noise reasons.

what is the lower card slot buss?? that seems to be added to the upper card slot buss.

Cheers
Alan
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 09:10:20 PM by waltzingbear »
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2019, 08:46:01 PM »
Hi Alan,

Yes, the main inputs to the 651 via S5E have the +ve going to pin 5&6 and the -ve or earth to pin 8.
I am testing with S5E disconnected, to take any mods on the lower E19 board, or mods on individual modules, out of the problem.

I'm wondering if i can completely bypass the first stage of the 26 card input, and bridge it to the 5534AN op amp proir to the PreVCA send. Might try that tonight.

Anthony.

waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2019, 09:11:47 PM »
make sure you read my edited remarks above
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2019, 09:19:24 PM »
that sounds like some completely insane attempt to insert the noise from the +V into the buss. (in the inverted condition to cancel)

verify +v connection to 5/6 In

Alan
Alan Garren
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waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2019, 09:21:09 PM »
the first stage of the card is what keeps the summing buss low noise. Otherwise, not so good.
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2019, 09:25:28 PM »
Hi Alan,

Yep, all connections verified. When i pull the 26 card out, i get a clean signal appearing on pin 5&6.

The -ve input on pin 8 of my 26 card has a 10k resistor (and 10nf cap i think) to 0v. The schematic has a 1k and 20k trim pot.

Maybe if someone has a schematic to an early version 26 card about, i could sort this out, and revert it all back to unbalanced.

Anthony.

waltzingbear

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2019, 09:55:13 PM »
that still doesn't sound completely right.

Verify if +V is still present on buss.  and then test with the console busses disconnected from the 651

The cap to ground off the inverting input would need to be in the range of 470uF or 220uF to be a balanced mod. The 10k would be correct for balanced.

Yes, stock is 1k in series with a 20k pot to ground off the inverting input. on all versions of the card.

I'm still not sure what you are referring to as the lower card buss connector, I haven't been on a 4000 in some years. Is that the connection to the rest of the console? Is there still +V when you unplug that connector on the buss?

My general recommendation is to restore it to stock condition unless you can verify that the rest of the board is already set up for a balanced buss, that is superior and should be retained if possible.

Signal will always disappear off the buss when you have the 26 card installed as that is a current node, not a voltage node. Pulling the card and seeing if there is signal is a good test to see if the buss is being fed, but not a test to see if the summing buss is working.




« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 09:57:24 PM by waltzingbear »
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

horizonsound

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Re: 4032E Build
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2019, 10:16:42 PM »
Hi Alan

The lower bus card is the lower back  plane card in each bucket which has the quad bus, 32 busses, and TR in it.
The quad bus +ve and 0v appear as they should at the S5E connector on the 651, all the way to pin 5/6 and 8 at the 26 card slot.

Will do more investigation tonight

Anthony