Author Topic: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)  (Read 4285 times)

marcmozart

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On my G-Series, the routing matrix only allows me to route to channels 1 - 32. I find thats a bit strange. Means that the SUB GP Button on modules 33 and higher are quite useless. Is the patch really the only way to use modules 33 - 48 as Subgroups? How did engineers route to a Sony DASH 48 track machine back in the day?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
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Showcase

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 10:07:27 PM »
DIRECT out?

brewery

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 11:44:24 PM »
while there are mods for this (on a G+, 1-32 are copied to 33-64), you will almost never need this.
i rarely use the routing matrix during recording. if you can, you should always use the direct button, because it gives you a cleaner signal, and it's just easier. if you need to use a group input higher than 32, there's always the patchbay!

i use the routing a lot in mixing, but only for mults or extra fx sends. you won't need a lot of them for this (don't think i ever used more than the first 10).

marcmozart

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 09:12:55 PM »
Hey guys,
just a quick addition to this topic.

"DIRECT" out also doesn't work on my console on channels 33 and higher. Had a quick chat with Andy H. the legend and of course what he said makes a lot of sense as always - the bus cards that hold the channels were built with a 32-channel limitation.

I guess that a mod would be possible, in other words direct cables from channel 33 and higher to the group outs on the patchbay.

Is that something anybody ever had addressed?

Now let me finish of by saying that the reason I want all my channels to have DIRECT outs is that I'm using each channel + VCA fader as an insert on my DAW. Go figure... I'll report back when I've done the first mix using this configuration.
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
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http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

Clip6

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 10:21:05 PM »
Mark the 8000 had a 24/48 matrix so it's possible. Look at the 8000 factory pdf on Peter Duncan's site.

brewery

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 08:36:09 AM »
quote: "DIRECT" out also doesn't work on my console on channels 33 and higher. Had a quick chat with Andy H. the legend and of course what he said makes a lot of sense as always - the bus cards that hold the channels were built with a 32-channel limitation.


this is not really true. the bus cards are build in a 32 channel configuration, and you have to jumper each bucket of 8 accordingly.
but this only applies for the group input of the channel.
the group outputs are hardwired for every single channel from a bicc on the upper buscard (G) to the patchbay. pressing 'direct' overrides the group amp and routing, and sends the direct signal directly to that patchpoint. if you have converters (or a tape machines) hooked up to mt send 33 and up, this signal will be normalled to them. or, of course, you can patch.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 08:43:38 AM by brewery »

marcmozart

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 04:44:34 PM »
Thanks for chiming in - so I'm wondering what the issue could be, I have all 48 channels fully wired with converters, and direct doesn't work from channel 33 upwards.

Any ideas?

quote: "DIRECT" out also doesn't work on my console on channels 33 and higher. Had a quick chat with Andy H. the legend and of course what he said makes a lot of sense as always - the bus cards that hold the channels were built with a 32-channel limitation.


this is not really true. the bus cards are build in a 32 channel configuration, and you have to jumper each bucket of 8 accordingly.
but this only applies for the group input of the channel.
the group outputs are hardwired for every single channel from a bicc on the upper buscard (G) to the patchbay. pressing 'direct' overrides the group amp and routing, and sends the direct signal directly to that patchpoint. if you have converters (or a tape machines) hooked up to mt send 33 and up, this signal will be normalled to them. or, of course, you can patch.
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

brewery

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 01:05:25 PM »
as with everything, see where you lose the signal. you could even start with checking continuity from the upper buss card connector to the 'G' row of the patch.
if it doesn't show up on the patch (did you check the normals down to the mt sends?), put a channel on the extender, and see if you have signal on the upper bus card connector. if you do, check if the biccs are plugged in correctly. if they are, check continuity from the bicc to the patch. good luck, should be easy to figure out.


Clip6

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 05:54:07 PM »
Mark what happens when you swap i/o 32 to say i/o 48 does the fault follow? And what happens when not working i/o 48 is put in the working 32 i/o slot.

So swap i/o's and buckets does the fault follow.

amillar

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Re: Routing to Subgroups 33 and higher (SSL 4000 G-Series / 1991)
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 09:51:25 PM »
If you send a Slate tone does that come out on channels 33 up? If not (and if Direct doesn't work it probably won't) that seems to say the group outputs of those bins just aren't wired to the patchbay.

Re how did you use a 48 track recorder with 32 track routing: easy, the patchbay would be normalled so that group outputs 1-24 also went to 25-48 on the tape machine input. It was very very rare that this would not give enough routing. (Hence why we did the 9000 routing the way we did.)

There's nothing clever about Direct, it's a brute force feed of the routing feed out to the group output.

Good luck,

Cheers, Andy
co-designer and project manager G series analogue 1987
channel strip designer J series 1992-93
design "caretaker" 4000/6000 1985-93
analogue team leader ARC/Bertha 1988-92

RoyMixer

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crosslinking
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2017, 02:18:38 PM »


I would be interested in how the crosslinking is done to have busses feed higher channels than 32, from what I understand it was a factory option.
R

Matt Salazar

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Re: crosslinking
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 01:19:35 AM »


I would be interested in how the crosslinking is done to have busses feed higher channels than 32, from what I understand it was a factory option.
R

Me too! There are 24 track busses on our 8000 and I would like to, for example, pick up bus 1 on channel 25 or 49 without patching.

jimlfixit

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Relinking groups on the patchbay.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 01:54:31 AM »
Hi there.

Having read the last few posts a few times, the so called factory option involved (as far as I know) making the patchbay to suit the needs of the initial first client at the time the console was built.

So, to feed a 3348 Sony or multiple 24 tracks, the patchbay wiring people at SSL would normal the first 24 channels down to the multitrack record inputs as standard. Then, they would cross link Group output 25 to 49 for instance or somewhere else and those too, would be normalled down to the respective multitrack inputs so Group Output 1 could also feed 25 or 33 or 41 on a multitrack at the same time. This was not that uncommon in the mid to late 1980's as the consoles grew in size.

You can achieve this on the patchbay, without patchcords and parallels (or mults, which is a German term I believe) , if you are willing to spend the time cross linking the patchbay somehow to suit your needs.

This means taking some of the twin screen wires off, desoldering the jacks to some extent and adding more kynar type red and black wires to the other channel jacks on the patchbay so you can link 33 to 41 etc internally on the patchbay.

This is how I understand your problem and, if I am correct with this, it can be done as detailed above but it does involve some downtime of course.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 02:20:02 AM by jimlfixit »