Author Topic: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?  (Read 14359 times)

marcmozart

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Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« on: November 07, 2013, 10:22:36 PM »
My main Buss Output is always too "hot" for my converter inputs (SSL MADI Alpha Links). I feel I'm loosing out on some nice punch as the console has way more headroom than the convertors can take. What to do?
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Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 10:34:36 PM »
Patch on your output a dual-preamp that you can use to trim the input of the preamp / output of the console. A  BEA is very pleasant for this. Also it will help you level you stereo balance if the output of the console is somewhat shifting to one side.

Matt Sartori

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 11:14:52 PM »
Where do you take your feed from?

Mattia.

marcmozart

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 12:04:51 AM »
Patching the main output L and R - the one thats parallel to all the 2Track Tape Recorder Outs - into a pair of my converter inputs.
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walrus

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 11:58:22 AM »
Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level!  :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading.....  ??
Kevin.

marcmozart

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 12:33:26 PM »
My console is not anywhere near clipping when I'm inside the SSL Alpha Links range. Shows how awesome the mix buss is.

I have G+ cards in the centre section (mix/compressor/output-cards), not sure if these have more dynamic than earlier ones.

I'll do some testing with oscillator tones from the DAW to see where the desk really starts clipping in a not so nice way. Maybe you're right and I should stay within the 22dBu.

Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level!  :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading.....  ??
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 02:51:42 PM »

Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?

My console is not anywhere near clipping when I'm inside the SSL Alpha Links range. Shows how awesome the mix buss is.

I have G+ cards in the centre section (mix/compressor/output-cards), not sure if these have more dynamic than earlier ones.

I'll do some testing with oscillator tones from the DAW to see where the desk really starts clipping in a not so nice way. Maybe you're right and I should stay within the 22dBu.

Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level!  :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading.....  ??

marcmozart

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 02:58:10 PM »
Interestingly, Bob Clearmountain had the buss compressor of his G+ modified so that the Gain Makeup had a range from -5dB to +5dB, instead of standard 0dB to +15dB - maybe this is the best onboard option.

http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=260.0

I just don't like the idea to have another outboard patched in after JUST to get the level lower. CLA for example has a Pultec and a Focusrite Red Compressor following, these have both options to fine-tune the label to the 2-Track A/D.


Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
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perfectsnd

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 03:29:01 PM »
Just curious where you are finding the sweet spot on the desk?  How hot are you hitting the Quad Buss?  How hot are you hitting the line inputs of the channels?

If anybody else would like to chime in, I'd love to see where you have found the sweet spot to be on 4000G.


Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 03:45:27 PM »
Isn't that the same thing?!  CLA is patching outboard on his 2-bus that enables him to trim the final output.;)

Interestingly, Bob Clearmountain had the buss compressor of his G+ modified so that the Gain Makeup had a range from -5dB to +5dB, instead of standard 0dB to +15dB - maybe this is the best onboard option.

http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=260.0

I just don't like the idea to have another outboard patched in after JUST to get the level lower. CLA for example has a Pultec and a Focusrite Red Compressor following, these have both options to fine-tune the label to the 2-Track A/D.


Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?

waltzingbear

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 05:39:30 PM »
this is where a simple pad is a good idea. Drops the actual output level to what you want to drive the AD with, no loss in S/N, keeps the overload point in control, no additional active circuitry, etc.

Alan
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 05:08:13 PM by waltzingbear »
Alan Garren
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perfectsnd

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 04:16:58 PM »
So how hard are you guys hitting the 2 bus on the 4000?

marcmozart

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 08:16:49 PM »
It seems that at least my transients are easily louder than +22dBu all the time. And there is always a few dB space before it starts distorting. As I said above, I always have to back off to not overload my converters.

So how hard are you guys hitting the 2 bus on the 4000?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 09:47:26 PM »
use your maxipads!  8)


sintech

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Re: Console Out too "hot" - what to do?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 11:43:19 PM »
I dip the master fader, just a little when needed.

This is trimming the scale of the master VCA's then passing the unbalanced compressor/VCA out to the 025 card for balancing (this is the point it connects to the converters)

I'm tapping the compressor (2dB max) at 2:1 with no gain make-up

Also did a suggested lineup from a Gearslutz thread (but can't find the thread) for my '2 track inputs' on the Digidesign 192.