Author Topic: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram  (Read 1675 times)

retrocores

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Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« on: March 31, 2014, 05:49:40 PM »
Here is a block diagram of the computer related parts of a single Ultimation channel (within a bay). Its my interpretation of the various service manuals which in places are confusing (to say the least). So there may be the odd error or misunderstanding, so please correct me if anything is wrong.

Included in the diagram is a suggestion of how the new computer could interface to a Ultimation bay, it assumes a 'Card Per Bay' architecture with its own Micro; connected to a common bus back to the main processing card.

I will post a text document explaining my understanding of  how things work in due course and do similar block diagrams of the group bay and non-ultimation versions.

This is very much a request for comment.....  :)

Cheers,

Steve.

marcmozart

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2014, 06:24:39 PM »
Great work. I start to believe this project could indeed happen  :P
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sintech

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2014, 06:29:37 PM »
Brilliant work.

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2014, 09:42:18 PM »
Hi Steve,

As always you deliver a great great research result! It's been a pleasure to have you on board in this community project! :)

This is a great starting point for a discussion and to achieve a preliminary design of a prototype. There are still a couple of things that we still need to uncover, I'll shoot some that come to mind:

- How does work the interface with a console with no ultimation? Is the VCA interface the same as in the Ultimation? (the need for different cards on the old computer gives the clue that we might need to have some differences in the logic)

- This leads me to another question. Will we need different cards for VCA and Ultimation systems, or will we be able to develop a card 2-in-1 with only a little more logic/magic on the board? What's the easiest and most productive path?

- I imagine that we should start by messing first with the VCA systems, because these are simpler to grasp, when comparing with the ultimation ones. Users like myself with ultimation, can I use the VCA SSLMixed Computer card to drive the console with ultimation in VCA mode? This would be great, because we could focus on the VCA systems, and I could directly test it if the cards were compatible.

- There might be some differences between consoles 4000/5000/6000 and E/G/G+? Can someone say if the old computer would work in any of these consoles (with exception for the software)? Or did it need different cards with different/incompatible logic involved?

- Also, at some point (not now) we'll also have to deal with different channel strips. We have the 4000/5000/6000 channel strips that vary very slightly. If I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the only part that varies is not relevant to Automation, but to Total Recall. Some things I recall are: routing matrixes that are different, and BUS routing that are also different. I also see the we eventually might need to support stereo channels too.

I imagine that on the old computer this was configured on a software basis (such as a fader map, or channel strip configuration map). Can someone confirm this? Or maybe is there any type of channel strip detection feature that allowed the computer to detect what type of channel strip was installed?

Regarding the diagram. I see that the Analog Inputs vary from 0v/5v and outputs from -5v/5v. Is this correct or a typo?

Regarding VCAs I think these go from 5v (fader down) to 0v (fader totally up). Shouldn't these be the same between Input/Output or do they need to be somehow converted because of the ultimation system? Also, I think the fader when CUT the VCA value is 10v. When cut are these routed to the VCA output or they are routed some where else?

Andy can you help on clarifying this? :D

Lets keep talking! I will dive more into the system.

EDIT: By the way, does anyone have the Ultimation Retrofit Manual? This might help uncover the differences and details that might be hidden under the hood.

Cheers,

Artur
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 10:37:00 PM by Artur D'Assumpção »

pascal.verdet

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2014, 10:33:10 AM »
Hi Arthur,

We have lot answer about your questions  on G Series Computer Service Manual, section One.
On Maintenance Menu, we have lot of options about :
Console Type,
Computer connections,
Custom mode,
Total Recall,
and so more ...

I think that the nice work of steve, can be a good starting point for our new design.

Cheers,
Pascal

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2014, 11:10:39 AM »
Hi Pascal,

Yesterday night I met with Steve and we got to the bottom of most of these questions. There are still some doubts of course, but we are in the process of getting onto the bottom of it soon, as we dive into the schematics.

Regarding this, that what I thought so. The computer configuration would be the smartest choice. I'll reference the manuals later! :D

Thanks! ;)

Cheers,

Artur

Hi Arthur,

We have lot answer about your questions  on G Series Computer Service Manual, section One.
On Maintenance Menu, we have lot of options about :
Console Type,
Computer connections,
Custom mode,
Total Recall,
and so more ...

I think that the nice work of steve, can be a good starting point for our new design.

Cheers,
Pascal

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2014, 05:06:52 PM »
Hi Arthur, Steve and Marc,

I agree totally with your 16 slots backplane, and with your arrangement.

Regarding the thread "Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram",
I'm working this afternoon on 82E357 card to understand why the mix data is converted to ±5 V,
and fed to the '353 Fader Servo Card via S36, S37,and SI4 ???
But, looking on the left top '353, we can see that is summed by high gain amplifier (IC4) to produce an output
between ±15V to correspond with the required forward or reverse movement of the fader from its current position !!!
That's why ±5 V !!
Ok

Regarding your question about "How does work the interface with a console with no ultimation" ...
In the case where the console does not use the "Ultimation" option, the 82E13 VCA cards are used,
otherwise the 82E324 card is used.

Cheers,
Pascal

PS: It's very difficult to follow some threads in the same time for the same subject,
Is it possible to organize a call-conf ?

Hi Pascal,

Well, that makes sense! Thanks for the clarification! :D

Yesterday while talking with Steve we got to the conclusion that the key secret of the VCA vs Ultimation systems are the VCA cards installed on the Channel Strips, which in the VCA-system is 82E13 and the Ultimation is the 82E354. They act slightly different but not that different that make them total incompatible.

Steve believes that it might be possible, with some adaptation logic, to have the module cards of the SSLMixed Computer compatible with both systems, and only a backplane (passive) card to be switched whether is  a VCA system or Ultimation system. This would reduce costs and complexity of the final computer.

I already have this schematic ready, but I'm still in revision with Steve. I will post it soon for discussion.

Regarding the conf-call, I think it's possible for us 3 to schedule a conf call via skype or similar. I am available at all time this week.

Please let us know more about your conclusions on the 82E13 vs 82E354 VCA cards. These will be key for the final system.

Cheers,

Artur
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 05:11:18 PM by Artur D'Assumpção »

pascal.verdet

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2014, 06:58:27 PM »
Hello everyone,

You are right. The key is the VCA's  :D

Thank you to keep in mind that the 82E13 are completely analogue (+5V),
while 82E354 are on the fader side analogue and for the group part digital
 (the thumb-wheel switch setting is decoded on the 82E352 and send to the 82E356 (CA data lines bits 0-3))

Despite these differences, I agree with steve, and I think we can expect a basic system with options to drive this or that system.

Cheers,
Pascal

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Ultimation Channel Bay block diagram
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2014, 08:45:00 PM »
Hi Pascal,

Yes that's our goal. Try to see if it's possible to make a module card compatible with both VCA cards. Since the module cards will be the active part of the electronics, this would reduce complexity to maintain 2 types of card and 2 microcontroler codes. Also, having a passive backplane that has all the necessary logic for VCA or Automation will make it cheaper and less painful to maintain 2 backplane cards.

Cheers,

Artur