Author Topic: Automation System for a 5K  (Read 1885 times)

Bubbes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
Automation System for a 5K
« on: November 15, 2015, 04:39:36 PM »
Hello everybody,

my name is Jens, i`m new here and i`m am looking for a automation system for my 5000 console
i`ve already have a SL590 total recall computer as well and want now "upgrade" my studio setup

I heard that the 5K uses the same computer for automation as the 4K G or G+
But maybe that THD-Labs system would do that job as well..

any thoughts ??

Cheers... Jens
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 02:35:19 PM by Bubbes »



PelleG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Karma: +8/-1
    • Stockholm, Sweden
    • Automan
Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2015, 10:39:16 PM »
From what I've learned the pin out and fader control is a bit different on the 5K.

I could be wrong. If the original 4K computer works then the THD will as well since they're compatible.

..and, our system will work also.
automanefforts.com

Artur D'Assumpção

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +21/-0
  • Sintra, Portugal
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 12:35:24 PM »
There are different things... the CUTS are controlled differently. On the original computer you have individual CUT connectors, these are for the 5k automation.

If the I/O cards are the same, I suppose nothing else changes, but if they change for a 5k configuration then the I/O will also change.

Bubbes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2015, 02:34:25 PM »
Hey, first of all thanks for the answer !

this is whats in my SL536, i don't know if i would need different cards  or whatever
there are no ribbon connectors or so, thats why im so cuffed at the moment...

I don't have any ribbon cable at all
i don't know if it`s worth it at the end :)

Cheers... Jens

Artur D'Assumpção

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +21/-0
  • Sintra, Portugal
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 12:23:22 PM »
Well, I am not acquainted with the 5k architecture, from what I understand it's a different beast when compared with the 4/6/8K consoles, despite SSL used the same computer for the automation.

What I know, from taking a glance at it while doing the R&D for the SSL Mixed Computer, is that the interface with the legacy computer was the S14 cable (50 way ribbon) + an extra CUTs cable. So it seems to be 2 cables per channel bay (8 faders for the 5k?). While on the 4/6/8K everything goes on a S14 cable per bay (8 channels).

This leads me to suspect (and this is only speculation) that perhaps either they put more faders into each S14 cable, or each fader needed more control lines (and that's why they had to separate the CUTs, and I suspect even what they call CUTS, might have more information there because it's a 20-way ribbon). If this is true... i also suspect the I/O cards necessary for the 5k might also be different, although the CPU main card is the same.

Do you have a service manual for the console? 

EDIT: I was looking into the computer service manual and it's common to the 5000 console. You should study this manual to learn the differences and requirements for the automation/mixing computer.

Artur



« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 12:48:26 PM by Artur D'Assumpção »

Artur D'Assumpção

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +21/-0
  • Sintra, Portugal
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2015, 12:51:26 PM »
Here's the computer layout for the Sl5000 consoles:

AI = Analog Inputs
AO = Analog Outputs
MF = Master Fader
L&S = Lights & Switches
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 12:54:15 PM by Artur D'Assumpção »

Helterbelter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • Zevenaar, The Netherlands
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2015, 03:17:41 PM »
Hi Jens,

Welcome ! Nice to have another 5k user here !

I know nothing about SSL computers, but i've read on the internet that the G+ of a 5k is not the same as a G+ of a 4/6/8 k. But maybe it's only the pinout indeed. And i don't believe everything I read on the internet anyway, hahaha.

You could contact Keith Skerrit of Recycled Audio. He should be able to give you an answer.
If he doesn't respond, send a PM to Matt, he probably likes to know this stuff as well.


Artur D'Assumpção

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +21/-0
  • Sintra, Portugal
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 06:30:23 PM »
The computer is the same it seems, just the card configuration/setup changes. This includes the separate CUTs cables.

matt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • Reutlingen, Germany
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2015, 04:08:04 PM »
Hi Jens,

great to have another 5K owner here - welcome.

The SL536 has nothing to do with the automation computer - unfortunately.
It is an external rack that holds additional boards for certain features of the 5K console.
In your case, as you can see from the pictures, something talkback and fader M/T switch cards.

The switch cards are usually for the 'fader start' feature (if you have such faders in your console) or for switching tape decks i.e. record en-/disable, safe mode etc.
I attached an image of a SL508 fader with a 'fader start' option.

The M/T switch setup is even more complex but if it is wired on your console it should work.

An automation computer (I have Ultimation and am talking about this one) involves a lot more than just the computer.
I also attached a picture of my computer which has 2 floppy drives (3.5" already) and a 19" rack that holds the necessary cards.
The other picture is the computer back (upper part)

From every bay of the console, 2 cables are running to the computer : 1 x 50 and 1 x 20 pin ribbon.
I am pretty sure that the boards are different in the computer as well.
The computer rack and processor seem to be the same for the 4K and 5K consoles.
The boards have different numbers though, like the AIO is 622041E1 for the 4K and CF8241 for the 5K console.
In addition, as you can see from Arturs pic, the use of the slots varies.

In addition to that, if you do want to have fader automation, you need different faders and the matching buscards for these.
Not to mention the racks that hold a control board for each fader.

The SL590 is solely for total recall of the button, pot and fader settings.
But it's great that you have this one already.

Matt

Bubbes

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 09:11:48 PM »
Hello Matt,

thanks for your answer !! I really appreciate !
Own the desk for about a year or so, it works fine, just two aux send cards in two channels aren`t work, but i can deal with it at the moment.
Have a lot of spare modules, faders, spare parts, power supply, Lemo patchbay, additional meter bridge. the desk was installed in a german radio station mobile truck
and was mostly use for live broadcasting concerts live on the radio, blues and jazz...

i have some SL506 and some SL508 faders as well.

In total 11 ribbon cables from the desk to the SL536 (i have two SL536 in total)
but there are smaller ribbons, i don't know what kind of at the moment :)

Nothing in Bay a
4 in Bay B
6 in Bay C (Master section) some of them for the SL551 switch cards
nothing in Bay D
one in Bay E
There are some D-Sub connectors in Bay D, but not in use...

i don't have 50 pin ribbons art all on the desk

The SL590 total recall computer saves and recall everything on the console, all pods, Faders and so on
all the switches are saves in the onboard instant recall computer

and a picture from the desk...

So maybe the desk won't work with a automation system at all ?!?
i don't know.... i contacted Keith from recycle already, and he directed me to this forum.

Thanks again for your help !!!

Cheers.. Jens




Helterbelter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • Zevenaar, The Netherlands
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 09:45:41 PM »
Sorry that I'm posting off-topic, but ....

Nice desk ! 510 on each monochannel, cool.

Only a few auxes not working, that's not an issue. Be glad the 510s work !
But is the problem the auxes from the 507/527s, or the 513/523 modules ? It should be a pretty easy fix.

By the way : could you post the picture of your console here as well ?: http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=918.0 
Also add your location for the list of existing 5ks :)




matt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • Reutlingen, Germany
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 05:56:02 PM »
Hi Jens,

really nice desk - I wish I had that much compressors for mine :-).

There's no reason why this desk shouldn't work with the automation computer - thing is : you have to have one.
If you only want to automate the switches this can be done with the SL581 : it can talk MIDI and you can 'press' the keys by MIDI. So you are able to recall previously made settings.
Fader automation is a different story. For that you need the SSL computer shown in my last post.
Since I have G+ Ultimation system, I am not sure if fader automation is possible in a different way.

Matt

Artur D'Assumpção

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Karma: +21/-0
  • Sintra, Portugal
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2015, 09:52:15 AM »
Hi guys,

Regarding the SSL 5k, from what I've been able to understand from the service manual, I believe the fader automation is only possible with motorized faders, not the ones you currently have installed. Additionally it seems the 5k supported the Ultimation faders (also valid for the 4/6/8k consoles) and a different fader system specific to the 5k consoles.

Matt, can you share a photo of your faders please?

Cheers,

Artur

matt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • Reutlingen, Germany
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2015, 10:04:31 AM »
Hi guys,

Matt, can you share a photo of your faders please?

Hi Artur,

I already did : http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=538.msg3477#msg3477

Cheers,
Matt

Helterbelter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • Zevenaar, The Netherlands
Re: Automation System for a 5K
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2015, 11:11:54 AM »
Eeehhh, well,
I don't know how the 5k ultimation or 4k automation works, but the 506/508 faders have a computer send and return for the CV. The faders just don't move.

I once had the idea to use a behringer cybermix for adding faderautomation on my 5k from the DAW. But this needs quite a bit of finetuning. I once managed to drive the cybermix through midi from Cubase, but there's more stuff needed to get it all up and running. After the fun-experiment made clear it's possible, I moved on to looking at other things that had way more priority. Obviously, an additional circuit using an opamp is needed to convert the CV values of the CM to the values needed for the 5k, but this is not a real problem.....

A bit off topic, but just saying that 506 and 508 faders should be useable for faderautomation. So, yes, I think Pelle's system is a very good candidate !