Author Topic: Preparing to solder multicore to jacks on bays  (Read 811 times)

ketracel

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Preparing to solder multicore to jacks on bays
« on: March 09, 2016, 12:13:29 AM »
Hi Jim,

Wondering if you have a few bits of advice?

I have 6 x M&M 96 Bantam bays (5 over 5 blade jacks -  perhaps in retrospect I should have only needed 3 x 3 over 3 and 3 x 3 over 5 for 3 non normalled and 3 half normalled - oh well mistakes are always going to be made) and i've made it to the stage where it's time to solder the 2 x 32 ch multicore cables to the jacks on the patchbay. I've trimmed the wires in a layout which copies your pic of the multicores running to the centre of the tie bar and the wires fan out on each side 1-24 on left and 25-48 on the right.

Since this is my first time doing this kind of job for my bedroom studio, it's taken me many hours to get the wires the correct length. Do you happen to have a template or repeatable method to match the wires to a guide of the correct length before cutting so these wires are the perfect length every time for this layout (I have 5 more bays after this one)?

Looking at my pics again and comparing to yours I can see that I may have to remove about another 100mm of sheaving in order to flatten out the wires in each multicore so that they'll fit nicely when racked up.

Now the soldering of the wires to the jacks. Do you leave the jacks in the bay then solder the wires to each jack, then tie them to the tie bar, or do you unscrew and remove the jacks from the bay, solder the wires to the jacks, then screw them all back into the bay and then tie the wires to the bar?

How do you orient your bays when working in with either case, vertically or the with patchbay flat on table? If the first do you support the multicores on the tie bar or leave loose until all jacks are soldered?

In my pics i've stripped the wires back to 20mm and tinned but now looking more closely at the eyelets in on the blades of the jacks I suppose i'd only need to strip back about 5mm.

There's the question is the way to wire up for 'mults' i'm not sure about. I'd love to take multiple copies of some synthesiser outputs, how exactly are these configured, tip to tip and ring to ring of adjacent top row of output jacks in the bay, any special tricks?

I don't have microphones as my setup consists of sampler, synthesisers, drum machines etc, but in my outboard gear I have some mic pre inputs in case I want to knock a synth signal down to instrument level, run through a guitar distortion pedal, then out into a DI and into a the mic pres. I've read it's best to put mic pres on a dedicated XLR patchbay and not on a TT bantam bay due to potential linking a line level signal into a mic pre input, which could be damaging. Is this something your own experience tends to follow?

Any advice highly appreciated, i'd love to understand some tricks to do this properly and to save a bit of time although i'm well over budget, the time factor is enormous.

I attach some pics of how i have my first bay sitting with the multicores I'm trying to figure out how to support and solder the wires to the jacks. The other pic is of course your perfectionist work of art.

Regards
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 12:28:24 AM by ketracel »

Clip6

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Re: Preparing to solder multicore to jacks on bays
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2016, 10:51:24 PM »
If your in the USA just send your cables and bays to Chris at Redco. He'll knock it out. He has all the DL pinouts.

That's what I did.

jimlfixit

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Re: Preparing to solder multicore to jacks on bays
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2016, 03:16:38 AM »
Hi Russel (I asked him to post on here so I could address his wiring concerns to you lot in SSL land!)

First of all, sorry for the delay in replying and hope I am not too late? I will reprint your comments and answer them accordingly and will provide more details when I can find the pictures to back them up and the time to do so. My responses are in red below.

I have 6 x M&M 96 Bantam bays (5 over 5 blade jacks -  perhaps in retrospect I should have only needed 3 x 3 over 3 and 3 x 3 over 5 for 3 non normalled and 3 half normalled - oh well mistakes are always going to be made).
5 blade (as you put it), switched jacks can be used for all types of patchbay wiring and are used when normalling is required. The top row would usually be unswitched jacks and the bottom row, switched if half normalling is required. Fully normalled patchbays require both top and bottom rows to be switched (5 bladed) jacks. Effects patchbays with no normalling only require unswitched jacks on the top and bottom.

 and i've made it to the stage where it's time to solder the 2 x 32 ch multicore cables to the jacks on the patchbay. I've trimmed the wires in a layout which copies your pic of the multicores running to the centre of the tie bar and the wires fan out on each side 1-24 on left and 25-48 on the right.
No need to copy my layout. I did that because I had to break out loads of wires in that place due to the amount of cables in the patchbays above and beneath so, STAGGER the break out positions so the wires are not just in the centre. SSL did this on alternative patchbays so the wires from the patchbay wouldn't all be in the same place.

Since this is my first time doing this kind of job for my bedroom studio, it's taken me many hours to get the wires the correct length. Do you happen to have a template or repeatable method to match the wires to a guide of the correct length before cutting so these wires are the perfect length every time for this layout (I have 5 more bays after this one)?
No template exists really and you have to secure the loom to the tiebar, have a cable tie or bit of lacing between each circuit, bend it out to suit the jack it is going to with enough spare (called a service loop) and then cut it to suit.

See the picture below: (bugger, can't seem to locate a picture here so it has to be at the end of this...!).

Looking at my pics again and comparing to yours I can see that I may have to remove about another 100mm of sheaving in order to flatten out the wires in each multicore so that they'll fit nicely when racked up.
I think you mean the main multicore coming from the patchbay. If so, yes otherwise the thick jacket of the multicore will rub against any other multicores above or below and a patchbay is only 1.75" high plus the multicore will not be as flexible as having the individual wires in some form of thin sheathing like I use.

Now the soldering of the wires to the jacks. Do you leave the jacks in the bay then solder the wires to each jack, then tie them to the tie bar, or do you unscrew and remove the jacks from the bay, solder the wires to the jacks, then screw them all back into the bay and then tie the wires to the bar?
Leave the jacks in the patchbay and solder the wires to them in situ. No need to remove them.

How do you orient your bays when working in with either case, vertically or the with patchbay flat on table? If the first do you support the multicores on the tie bar or leave loose until all jacks are soldered?
Flat on the table otherwise gravity gets in the way! I would loom, cut, prepare and terminate the bottom row first and then the top.

In my pics i've stripped the wires back to 20mm and tinned but now looking more closely at the eyelets in on the blades of the jacks I suppose i'd only need to strip back about 5mm.
I would strip back about 30mm, from the individual balanced circuit, apply a 20mm rubber sleeve or heatshrink, strip (or bare back) the individual core wire by 8mm, TWIST it, tin it and cut off 5mm leaving a nice 3mm tinned version to solder onto the jack contacts. No need to go through the eye of the blade, just lay it on top.

There's the question is the way to wire up for 'mults' i'm not sure about. I'd love to take multiple copies of some synthesiser outputs, how exactly are these configured, tip to tip and ring to ring of adjacent top row of output jacks in the bay, any special tricks?
Mults, (I believe) is a German term for paralleling or linking (Marc Mozart can correct me on this) the jacks. SSL called it paralleling. Yes, tip to tip, ring to ring and if you have a non SSL type patchbay without the jack screwed directly into the front metalwork, you need the screens linked as well. Common colour codes would be red for tip, blue (or black) for the ring and green for the screen.
Mount them side by side on the same row, not top and bottom. You may also need some phase reversals (tip to ring and vice versa) to correct mic and outboard wiring (US gear was wired pin 3 hot on an XLR unlike UK, European and Japanese stuff).


I don't have microphones as my setup consists of sampler, synthesisers, drum machines etc, but in my outboard gear I have some mic pre inputs in case I want to knock a synth signal down to instrument level, run through a guitar distortion pedal, then out into a DI and into a the mic pres. I've read it's best to put mic pres on a dedicated XLR patchbay and not on a TT bantam bay due to potential linking a line level signal into a mic pre input, which could be damaging. Is this something your own experience tends to follow?
Line level stuff is fine on a patchbay but I think you mean instrument wiring like guitar leads. In which case do NOT have those on the same patchbay or even inside a console. These should also be kept as short as possible (a few metres). I recently rewired a studio where the instrument ties (guitar lines) were bussed round the studio with long lengths of cable linked together with the wrong type of cable used...aargh...bad boys.

Any advice highly appreciated, i'd love to understand some tricks to do this properly and to save a bit of time although i'm well over budget, the time factor is enormous.
Hope I've helped here a bit. It would take loads of time and pictures to even begin to explain my methods and approach properly. All the budget gets used up with the gear and then, suddenly, you realise that the spaghetti (wiring) needs to be done and that takes a shxt load of time. Perparation is the key here.

I attach some pics of how i have my first bay sitting with the multicores I'm trying to figure out how to support and solder the wires to the jacks. The other pic is of course your perfectionist work of art.
Thanks for your comments. My patchbay picture is not my best version and is only one whereby loads of individual multicores from the same patchbay all came together and were heading out with up to 20m of cable to different places within the studio.

Anyway, comments on my picture below (hopefully)!
I have loomed the wires along the patchbay tie bar and roughly secured them with releasable cable ties. Lacing twine separates out the individual circuits and then I have presented the wires to the jacks with a suitable service loop and cut the wires.
Then I can take the whole loom OFF the patch and prepare the wires with sleeving and tin them, ready to solder them to the jacks and then properly secure them in place. Prep work like this makes the final stripping, sleeving and tinning process much easier OFF the patchbay than doing the whole thing in situ.

PS: Clip6, I also have all the DL pinouts and am based in the UK. (also used to work at SSL from 1980-87 in the early days so I know all about the DL wiring and I also supply the DL connectors used in SSL's if anyone wants them...will post in the buy and sell menu soon with my prices for those).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 03:40:35 AM by jimlfixit »