Author Topic: Machine/Mixing room duct size  (Read 4278 times)

Artur D'Assumpção

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Machine/Mixing room duct size
« on: March 30, 2013, 12:05:29 PM »
Hi SSLians,

As you already know I'm in the process of installing an SSL 6K. I'm currently building and prepping the studio rooms and need to know the size for the cable duct between the machine room and the mixing room, to be able to pass all cables that connect the SSL to the computer+power. 

Can any of you tell me more or less how much is the size of your duct? I'm trying not to open a BIG "ass" duct :D

I'd also ask you if possible to take a few pictures of the amount of cables you have passing through this duct and share it here. Just for me to have a visual reference and an idea of what I need to do...

I'd be very appreciated!

Thank you,

Artur
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 02:08:51 PM by Artur D'Assumpção »

radardoug

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 09:08:13 PM »
Make it as big as you can. Nothing worse than finding your cable duct is too small. Think in terms of 12 inches wide by 6 inches deep.

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 12:25:35 AM »
Is it possible for you to take a few snapshots of your duct and the amount of cables that you have going through please?

wedge

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 02:04:43 PM »
If you're speaking of a hole between two rooms, I used a 4" PVC pipe and everything fit through that fine.  Once it was in the control room, it went through a larger trough to the console.  You want to be gentle with those ribbon cables.  When going through a wall, I like a smaller opening to best keep the noise down.  Once installed, I stuffed the remaining space in the PVC with some old sonex foam pieces, and things got really quiet.

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 03:25:13 PM »
4" PVC was enough? That's nice!!  Did it fit the ribbons and the power all tight together?

Which console do you have?

Cheers,

Artur

jimlfixit

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Cable duct size suggestions
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 04:03:01 PM »
I encounter this problem a lot where not enough ducting is planned for between the rooms. If I get involved in enough time, I always have a chat with the architect to ensure that there is enough ducting provided but, most of the time, it is too late and the floor has already been done. Bear in mind architects don't really like putting big ducts in as they may affect the structural or acoustic performance of the control room.

The structural problem may be due to the massive amount of building materials in the walls and ceiling required to sound insulate the control room. If the floor is weakened by having a large space in the floor, the control room (CR) floor may not be as strong (this happened recently). Acoustically, that big gap may cause resonance problems in the CR and also allow sounds to travel between rooms unless carefully sealed up with expanding foam etc.

Bear in mind you may need quite a few cables between the CR and Machine Room (MR). If you had all the SSL computer cables plus ProTools and/or Analog tape machines in the MR, a few big effects units plus tielines, remote cables and other stuff like digital, video, Cat 6 etc, your ducting may need to be quite big especially if you want to be able to pull out complete cables one day when you sell the SSL (and buy another one of course!) without having to chop them (never cut at the DL end as they could be sold on).

Also keep the analog cables away from the other stuff in which case I would possible recommend having metal trunking if you can afford it. Although more expensive, an advantage is that you can connect it to the technical earth as well by drilling a hole and fitting a cable to your tech earth point. This version can be in something like 100mm widths so the cables are separated which is another good point. You could therefore have a 300mm wide duct separated into 2 or 3 sections. Metal ducting is not great for pulling ribbon cables through though and I would suggest rounding the corners and maybe even fitting some thin (4mm) plywood into the ducts to avoid any cables catching on the corners and metal bumps inside it.

SSL supplied their cables (console to computer) prior to any console shipment so they could be laid into the floor area but I have heard of some bad cases where the floor was already completed or the ribbons ended up with a nail through them as the floor wasn't finished before hand. A removable top for the ducting would be ideal from a wiring and installation point of view but wood flooring, fitted carpets, structural and acoustic problems may prevent this. In any event, leave enough room in the ducting to install more cables and remember, a studio is never finished!

With the possible looms I mentioned above being laid in, you could end up with the following cable looms in the duct:

DL's 11, 12, 21, 22 (multi returns and sends), 41 and 42 (analog machine track remotes if needed), another one or two 24 or 32 pairs for MR outboard and tielines, 1 or 2 SSL power looms plus 5" TV cable, SMPTE, loads of 50 way ribbons plus the 5" TV 20 way and any other smaller video, data, digital and remote cables if required going via the same route.

Also, if one of your live rooms or booths leads on from (next to) the MR, you have all that stuff to go through the same ducting as well.

Hope this helps. I attach a picture of 2 x 48 way multicores going through a 4" pipe into the MR at a recent studio. You can see how much room they take up and they just deal with 48 channels of ProTools records and replays (DL's 21, 22, 11 and 12)!

Finally, if your ducting can not be accessible, always add a sturdy draw wire twice the length of the ducting so you can pull more cables through. I would also suggest repositioning it a few times as it starts off on the bottom and then you gradually have a weight of cables on top of the last ones you pulled through making it harder each time. Gravity is responsible for this as cables lie on the floor!

Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK



« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 04:14:48 PM by jimlfixit »

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 05:52:40 PM »
Hi Jim,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply! I've learned a lot from reading it and I really appreciate it.

Actually at this time I plan only to have connect the computer rack and the SSL. The rest of the looms are going to stay in the CR since the protools gear will be inside it and not in the MR. This is not a big facility, but my own personal studio. Anyway I think you are right, and it's more than wise to have space left in the duct if somehow in the future I wish to pass more stuff in it.

I have a question for you, do you use the same pipes to pass power from the MR to the CR, or do you use separated pipes? I intend to use this same duct to supply the CR main electrical installation (the mains box is in the MR). Or should I use a different pipe?

Cheers,

Artur

 

jimlfixit

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AC supply through CR to MR ducting
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 06:17:34 PM »
Hi Artur. Ideally, do not run AC mains cables in the same ducting as the SSL cables but, if you have no choice, you could use shielded AC cable which has a separate, probably braided, shield which will offer some protection from interference to the other cable looms. Also, keep this well away from the other cables if possible.

The main AC supply is usually in the MR so most studios have this problem but they normally run the supply separately and via a different route. Perhaps run the AC up into the ceiling area first and then along and down to feed the various other rooms. The studio wiring could then be fed along and up from the floor to the breakout points such as panels, racks etc. Another reason for this is, if you have a flood, the AC wiring is safer some height up from the ground and won't make the wet floor area extremely dangerous or even fatal!

Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:03:58 PM by jimlfixit »

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 11:47:46 PM »
Jim,

What I am thinking is to open a wide duct and fit 2 pipes (like u suggested on the previous post):

- One pipe would run SSL cabling, this includes rack ribbons and SSL power looms.
- The other pipe would run only the AC cables to feed the power outlets in the CR, totally separated from the SSL.

The "SSL pipe" will run directly into the CR and is open to the inside of the room, while the "AC Pipe" runs through the back of the acoustic treatment walls, thus never crossing each other.

Do you think think this will suffice? I can consider using metal pipes instead of PVC if that increases isolation.

Eitherway, as a side note, the track input/ouput looms, send and return looms and SSL audio looms will have to run also behind the acoustic treatment walls. My acoustic engineer told me that these should run closely tight with the CR power cables. This will help reduce the noise that power looms will induce into the audio looms. Do you share the same opinion?   

By the way, this may sound like a lame question, but isn't possible to shield this AC power looms with aluminium foil or something? Instead of buying shielded power cables which are much more expensive?  To be more precise, run a conductive wire around the 3 main conductors on an AC cable to hold them tight, wrap the cable with aluminium foil and then connect the wire on one end to the ground. A little bit MAcGyver I know?! :D

Thank you,

Artur
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 12:29:03 AM by Artur D'Assumpção »

StefanNowak

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2013, 10:14:21 AM »
Here's my duct. 150mm PVC.

2x SSL AC, computer ribbons, video and earth.

24 ch multicore, Cat 5, USB, DVI, CCTV links.


Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2013, 12:59:02 PM »
Thanks Stefan! That's perfect! :D


Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2013, 02:04:08 PM »
By the way Stefan,

Are those the SSL AC (connect the power supplies to the main power) cables or the DC (connect the console to the power supplies)? You're referring to those looms at the right correct?

StefanNowak

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Re: Machine/Mixing room duct size
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2013, 10:55:36 PM »
Sorry yes, they're the DC cables to the console.

Stef.