SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: marcmozart on February 27, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
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It's about time to start a thread about the 4 year journey of installing my 48 Channel G-Series Console. The final install is happening in the next 6 weeks, so it's time to look back, share past videos and pictures and also interact with you guys as there are still a few interesting details to solve…
As a start, here's a video of when we picked up the console in August 2009 from Paris.
http://youtu.be/ty_SPobPmMg (http://youtu.be/ty_SPobPmMg)
I also started a 2nd thread that deals purely with troubleshooting my console (as it's actually up and running and I'm mixing on it since April 16, 2013). http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=301.0 (<- Trouble Shooting Journal)
In early 2014 I started another thread called "Rebirth of the Mix Computer" (<- full refurbish of a mix computer)
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=499.0
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I bought the console in Paris, from Gil Martini, formely head of tech at SSL France. The desk was formely installed at a kids TV station in Paris and maintained by Gil all through it's previous life.
I looked at a number of desks during my lengthy search for a console and what convinced me about this one, apart from Gil's warm and friendly personality, was the measurements I took from all the channels. I basically ran a 0Hz - 44kHz frequency sweep (at 88kHz sample-rate) from each channel's line input to the post VCA output of the centre section by using the Mac OS software http://www.fuzzmeasure.com
Whereas the results of other consoles I looked at where extremely random, Gil's console gave me a straight line from about 15Hz to 40kHz. The line looked astoundingly similar on all 48 Channels except 2 or 3 which Gil fixed on the spot - very impressive!
The console was setup, completely functional, and sounding very clean when inspected, so it was an easy decision to go for it.
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Once we had the console at the "soon-to-be new mixroom", I decided to give the console a complete cleaning job, so that it would not only technically but also cosmetically look like new.
Here's what we did with the channels:
- we build a wooden costum stand that would allow us to service and clean removed channels
- every knob and their underlying brass-holders were removed from the channels
- the (granite G-series grey) metal surface of every single channel was cleaned with Isopropyl-Alcohol and a Toothbrush, which took about 60 minutes for every single channel
- the PCBs were cleaned from dust with a soft brush while a vacuum cleaner, held in some distance, sucked in the dust.
- all knobs, knobcabs and their brass holders were cleaned in an industrial Miele dishwasher.
- knobs and knobcabs that didn't look like new were not used again
I'm attaching some pictures of this process...
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I watched this video ages ago!!! now it all makes sense! well done!
Gil is a fantastic tech and guy, much respect form us at Funky Junk!
I like the guys accent very cockney!
;) ;) ;)
Well done with your installation, please keep on posting!
Mattia.
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More channel pictures... 8) more soon (trim, centre section, etc...)
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I can't tell you how many times I watched that video before the arrival of my board.
Stef.
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I'll just let the pictures speak for itself. My obsession for red leather originates from the classic 1954 Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing sports coupe, but thats another story.
Jim Lassen once mentioned to me that a few consoles were factory delivered in costum trim colors, and I would definitely like to know more. The ones I heard about were done by the owners (some of you will know about the red 4060 G+ that used to be at Alpha Centauri Studio, now at Studio 2 of http://www.spherestudios.com).
Anyway, the material we've used is artificial leather. For the G Series Side-trim we heated it with a hairdryer - when warm you can stretch the material and bend it around corners.
Pictures below... removing original black trim and upholstering the armrest. BTW, to remove the armrest you just have to unscrew some VCA Faders, not too complicated.
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Side Trim - those are two parts on each side. To remove the trim we had to reach underneath the patchbay (left) and producer-table/rack (right). Quite tricky...
Meter-Bridge Trim - ideally you remove the meters because the Trim is secured with screws from inside the meter-"penthouse".
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Beautiful job!!! This is trully the SSL Mercedes!! :D
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A few centre section close-up pics..
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Some Beauty Shots - done after cleaning the channels. Reminds me I still need to put all the pushbutton covers in the dishwasher.
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SSL aside for a moment. Here are some pictures of the studio-build from this week. Isolation of the ceiling.
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This console is impressive! :D
It shines like new!! :D What did you used to clean the surface and the buttons? It's really polished!
Good work!
Kudos,
Artur
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See earlier post!
Channels put in custom service stand.
All pot knobs, caps and brass-holders removed.
Surface cleaned with Isopropyl-Alcohol and Toothbrush.
Knob Parts in Miele Dishwasher.
Done!
Takes about 2-3 hours total per channel the way we did it. This stuff alone took us a year. (As we are music producers and still had to get music done LoL)
This console is impressive! :D
It shines like new!! :D What did you used to clean the surface and the buttons? It's really polished!
Good work!
Kudos,
Artur
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Damn impressive amount of work!
Do you have more detailed pictures of the channels in the custom surface mount?
For the channel cards, did you just "sucked out" the dust, or did you took off all cards and cleaned with any type of circuit/contact cleaner?
Didn't the washing machine erased the button markings?! You used standard washing detergent right?
Cheers,
Artur
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It's a simple construction that holds the channels in place - see pic below!
We didn't take out the channel cards (yet), but we'll make recapping channels an ongoing task. Thats when we'll take out the cards. I would say cleaning the contacts with Isopropyl-Alcohol, as usual, should do.
The dishwasher did a perfect job. The markings on the knob cap can only be scratched off with sth sharp like a knife or scissor (or maybe finger-nails), definitely NOT by a dishwasher. Just used the standard detergent I'm always using in my dishwasher.
Do you have more detailed pictures of the channels in the custom surface mount?
For the channel cards, did you just "sucked out" the dust, or did you took off all cards and cleaned with any type of circuit/contact cleaner?
Didn't the washing machine erased the button markings?! You used standard washing detergent right?
Cheers,
Artur
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Thanks! :D
I'm very curious to know more about the followups! :D
Keep posting! :D
Cheers,
Artur
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Just a quick pic of where we are... next-up bass-traps, room measurements etc.
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Frequency Response is linear +/- 3dB now from 60 - 200 Hz. Two days of experimenting with 11 packages of Rockwool while measuring different speaker and listening positions did the job. Next up will be treatment of early reflections - cloud above mix position and absorbers at Early Reflection Points. And - of course - the Rockwool will be permanently installed and covered with a wall of red fabric.
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Looks really good...really really good....
Mattia.
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I really need to catch up posting the latest developments... I'm very busy mixing on the console and also working on some new music business ventures. Anyway, just went through the centre section, taking all the cards out, cleaning contacts, doing some recapping.
What I had not realized yet - the mix-buss cards on my console are very late G+ versions, tested by SSL 12/04 and 01/08!! I'm just posting the pics of the cards, perhaps some of you can elaborate on these and the difference to earlier versions.
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hmmmm those are new to me.
Do I see some SMD chips on that first card you showed? On those small vertical modules?
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Yes you're seeing just right ;)
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hmmmm those are new to me.
Do I see some SMD chips on that first card you showed? On those small vertical modules?
There are 5534s on these modules. These are called "balancing hybrids" - one of the few parts that are still available from SSL as spares.
kilmister - are these centre section cards similar to what's in your 1999 G+ ?
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Yep, they look familiar to me
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Recapping is an ongoing process - and thanks to a professional solder station - I'm getting pretty fast at it.
G-Series Channel Logic Card - note the little red WIMA MKS-2 "Metallized Polyester" Capacitor is replacing an Electrolytic Cap (0,47uF). Those WIMAs promise longer life, but are more expensive. For 0,47uF they're still decent (0,42 € ordering 10 at mouser.com).
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/6082293E_Logic_Card_Rev4_recapped_zps74b55ef3.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/6082293E_Logic_Card_Rev4_recapped_zps74b55ef3.jpg.html)
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Recapped Film Panning MK2 Card (also see my separate thread about these troublemakers: http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=415.0 )
Testing the effects of "bypassing" the coupling cap with a small WIMA 0,1uF (again, the small red cap on the back of the PCB).
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/82E281_film_panning_mk2_rev3a_october_1991_c_recapped_rewired_1_zps81e3683d.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/82E281_film_panning_mk2_rev3a_october_1991_c_recapped_rewired_1_zps81e3683d.jpg.html)
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After I first recapped cards "where necessary", I have now started to do the entire console, channel by channel. All while the console is being used. Basically, the channels in the last bucket (41-48) are taken out, and whenever a complete channel is serviced and rebuilt, I swap it out against one in use.
I am not only recapping, but also, taking out the routing cards to bath them in Isopropylalcohol (for a few days). I also clean the surface of the entire channel motherboard (again with Isopropyl) from dust, and all the card connectors with Q-tips. After cleaning the motherboard gets waxed and polished (using a high quality car wax) for future protection. After recapping the cards I clean them with a soft toothbrush (and, guess what LoL) and also clean the edge connectors with a Q-tip.
This is very time-consuming when doing it to this level of perfection. Probably takes 3-4 hours per channel. I like to think that after this treatment the channels are better than new, considering that todays caps are of much higher quality than 20 years ago, and I am using very high quality caps.
Picture below:
Film Pan MK2 Card and G-Series Logic card (note the little red 0,47uF WIMA MKS Film Cap replacing an Electrolytic Cap).
On the Film Pan MK2 Card I have increased the value of the Non-Polar Cap to 100uF and installed a MKP Film-Cap as a bypass. The Film Pan MK2 Card would measurably cut off the low end which is an effect of the value of this cap being too small. Interestingly I don't see this low-cut on some of my channels that have the Film Pan MK1 Card installed.
The Film Pan Card is pretty much an added circuit at the end of the channel signal chain, that all the Non Film Pan-Consoles do not have. I might do more modifications on it, these are not the most clever design.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-23120807-2_zps8347cc45.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-23120807-2_zps8347cc45.jpg.html)
VCA Card (top left) on which I increased C9 to 220uF and added MKP Bypass-Caps 0,01uF on C8 and C9 (soldered to the back of the PCB)
G-Series Channel Amp Card (top right) and Dynamics in the front.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-23120736_zps146093e9.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-23120736_zps146093e9.jpg.html)
Group Card (top) and G-Series 292 EQ (front)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-23120801-2_zpsa1031caf.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-23120801-2_zpsa1031caf.jpg.html)
The routing cards are not making any noises any more. I've also cleaned the grey routing buttons in a soap bath and then bathing in plastic cleaner (for car interior) which softens them slightly. A lot of the routing cards on my console were previously replaced (probably in 2008), and cleaning those newer cards was probably more of esoteric value.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-23120754-2_zpsfeae1a0b.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-23120754-2_zpsfeae1a0b.jpg.html)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-23120725-2_zpsc20568db.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-23120725-2_zpsc20568db.jpg.html)
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Brilliant work :)
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FANTASTIC!
well done!
Mattia.
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Awesome!!! :D
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Hi Marcmozart,
great work. ;)
Could you explain better this mod you've done to the VCA card?
VCA Card (top left) on which I increased C9 to 220uF and added MKP Bypass-Caps 0,01uF on C8 and C9 (soldered to the back of the PCB)G-Series Channel Amp Card (top right) and Dynamics in the front.
regards
Nick
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Read more here, it all goes back to some comments audio modding "guru" Jim Williams made on many occasions:
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=261.msg2161#msg2161
EDIT: Also see Pat's post below - he explained it really well.
1. The coupling caps in the signal path are there to filter out DC, they act like a High Pass Filter. Increasing the value of the coupling caps moves the frequency of the "High Pass Filter", and also it's phase shift, lower (C9 was 10uF before, now 220uF). I can measure extended low end after changing the value.
2. The added "bypass"Film-cap could be called esoteric, but it is said to improve the higher frequencies and transients. Basically, the added value of capacitance is so small that it doesn't change the value, but the added smaller Film Cap reduces the inductance in the higher frequency range. I'm not qualified enough to explain it properly, but I kinda understand what it's doing.
It certainly doesn't hurt and my recapped channels sound very clean on the VCA path. In fact the low end of my VCA path measures better than the Monitor Path (haven't changed any Cap Values on the group card yet).
Try to google "coupling caps film bypass jim williams".
Here's a link that goes more into detail:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/578503-bypass-caps-air.html
Once my entire console is recapped, I will experiment with 1 or 2 channels that have some heavier mods, like replacing the 5534/5532 OP-Amps with LME49710/20, which have such a low DC Offset that interstage coupling caps might not be required (they are important on Input Cards, Inserts, etc.).
But that might change the character of the console and brings other issues to the table (like high frequency oscillation), so it gets very experimental.
I would love to have more modding discussions on here, just to learn what parameters can be influenced.
Hi Marcmozart,
great work. ;)
Could you explain better this mod you've done to the VCA card?
VCA Card (top left) on which I increased C9 to 220uF and added MKP Bypass-Caps 0,01uF on C8 and C9 (soldered to the back of the PCB)G-Series Channel Amp Card (top right) and Dynamics in the front.
regards
Nick
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Hi Marcmozart,
You must surely rank as deeply inspirational to many silent, and non-silent, observers out there, you should be rightly proud of your great work and thanks for sharing it.
On the capacitor subject, electrolytic caps have an overall impedance characteristic that includes so called 'parasitic' elements two of which are ESR (effective series resistance) and ESL (effective series inductance). It is the ESL component that results in the capacitor effectively looking like an inductor at high frequencies, not good!
The ceramic, or film bypass, capacitor types have much lower ESL so when connected in parallel with the electrolytic, the combined inductance is greatly reduced, good...similar to when a high value resistor is paralleled with a smaller value resistor.
At least one assumption is in evidence here, that is the ESL of the electro Cap is greater than that of the bypass Cap...
Mods that I have implemented into various circuits in my 'senior' 4000E include getting shot of as many electrolytic capacitors as possible...enter the DC servo loop. With a little care and attention to design details, this mod is relatively straight forward and truly rewarding sonically.
I like the NE5534, any other fans out there?
Pat
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Thanks for the feedback, Pat! So the bypass cap reduces the inductance of the Electrolytic Capacitor at high frequencies, right? I'll correct that in my post! And, agreed, I too love the sound of the 5534.
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The never-ending story... recapping G-Series EQ-Cards, one of the easiest jobs as most caps are huge, easy to desolder, and non-polar (you can insert them any direction).
When recapping, I usually do a bunch of the same cards, while keeping a "reference" at hand to quickly confirm the correct values.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-03-04102521_zps5109d36f.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-03-04102521_zps5109d36f.jpg.html)
Bypassing all Coupling Caps with a WIMA MKP 0,01uF. As you can see, these Bypass Film Caps go on the backside of the PCB in parallel to the Non-Polar Coupling Caps (these Film Caps are also Non-Polar).
Need to do a listening test comparing the cards with bypass to those with no bypass. This run will have the bypasses...
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-03-04112501_zps00b3db0e.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-03-04112501_zps00b3db0e.jpg.html)
Done... those four EQ-Cards took about an hour, including desoldering, cleaning the cards and recapping.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-03-04114037_zpsea6a04f6.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-03-04114037_zpsea6a04f6.jpg.html)
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Amazing job Marc!
Please let us know about the results on those listening tests! ;)
Cheers,
Artur
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How did they turn out? Thinking of modding a few channels.
What's the deal with the monitor path? I haven't A/B'd mine against the dangerous...
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How did they turn out? Thinking of modding a few channels.
What's the deal with the monitor path? I haven't A/B'd mine against the dangerous...
To be honest I'm not really hearing a difference ;D
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Glad to hear, saves me a lot of time when I will recap.... :)
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haha! Thanks Marc! ;D