SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: amillar on October 02, 2017, 01:12:56 PM
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Hi,
I've just posted this as a reply in another thread, but since it's a common source of confusion I thought I'd give it its own thread where people might be able to find it!
In case it helps, here's a full list of 4000/6000/8000 EQs:
- 02 - Colin Sanders' original and main E series EQ, what you got if you didn't ask for anything else.
- 132 - John East's "Pultec" EQ, designed to work like, surprisingly enough, a Pultec: "constant Q" as you turn the gain up and down, very few desks were made with these.
- 242 - Trevor Stride's "tweak" to the 02 EQ, very subtly different, introduced in about 1984 so only just before the G. Although only supplied as a special it was very popular, so a lot of late E series and G series got fitted with this.
- 292 - the G series EQ, as I say we designed to sound similar to a Focusright, very powerful, too much so in some cases - very hard to get fractions of a dB boost! Interesting shape to LF and HF: where all the others had 'bell' and 'shelf' shapes the 292 is sort of inbetween, basically a shelf but (if you're boosting for example) with a bit of extra boost before it starts rolling off and an extra bit of cut after the roll off. Nice on bass guitar, IMHO! (Paul Frindle designed the mid bands on this one and I designed the HF and LF.)
If someone could add the knob colours to this list that would be brilliant! I can't remember them.
I think my 'ideal' SSL EQ would be G series (292) HF and LF and E series (02) midrange - but switchable to G series when you need it. You can sort of tell this in the way I designed the 9000J series EQ section, although for some reason (I can't remember why) I didn't make the E/G switching quite as flexible as I would have liked - I expect it was explained to me that not everyone is as much of an EQ nerd as I am!
Cheers,
Andy Millar
4000/6000 analogue design "caretaker" 1985-1993
G series project manager and analogue co-designer 1987-88
ARC (what?!) analogue project manager 1988-1992
9000 channel strip designer 1992-1993
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02 - Brown
132 - Orange
242 - Black
292 - Pink
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Hi, thanks for that, I didn't remember 292 being pink (it certainly wasn't originally but maybe we changed it), it was all a very long time ago now...
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Another thing to bear in mind when swapping EQ cards, is that one of the "benefits" of the later E/G channels fitted with the 242 EQ is that the Filter pots had a switch so that when off, the filter circuitry was completely bypassed.
Putting the 242 into an original 02 brown E channel won't have these switches, so you won't get a proper 242 experience! :)
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Glad to see you here Andy.
Feel free to share any stories about your time at SSL.
We'ed love to hear more from you.
8)
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Another thing to bear in mind when swapping EQ cards, is that one of the "benefits" of the later E/G channels fitted with the 242 EQ is that the Filter pots had a switch so that when off, the filter circuitry was completely bypassed.
Putting the 242 into an original 02 brown E channel won't have these switches, so you won't get a proper 242 experience! :)
So they did! Gosh, I am getting old and forgetful :) Also the 02 LF filter was (IIRC) 12db / 8ve whereas all the others were 18dB / 8ve, I think again if you put these into an 02 channel strip with two gang pots on the LF you'd just find you get a 12dB / 8ve LF.
Glad to see you here Andy.
Feel free to share any stories about your time at SSL.
We'ed love to hear more from you.
8)
Careful what you wish for...you have no idea how long I can go about this stuff! :) Actually, I've just realised that this year is the 30th anniversary of us starting work on the G series (Monday 16th February 1987 to be precise *), perhaps that is an excuse to write the story...
Cheers, Andy
(* and if you're wondering how I can remember that, it could be something to do with the fact that on Friday 20th Feb 1987 I first went out with the girl I went on to marry - it was rather an eventful week!)
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Hi Kevin,
For extra bonus points, do you know what the /3 switch on the LMF band on the G series EQ does? Yup, it shifts the frequency by a factor of 4! I love to be able to say there's a sonic reason for this (and oddly enough it does seem to 'feel' right), but actually I messed up the - very, very simple - calculation of the capacitor values and we didn't notice until it was in production! I'd love to know if the software emulations perpetuate my foul-up...
Cheers,
Andy
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No, i didn't know that! Thats a classic that is. ;D
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8) Love it. Yea /3 on 292 gets you your LF bell on the 242.
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Andy so I have 292's and one 242 in my console. What Q setting on blue
green eq sections of 292 equals the bell Q on the 242? Still waiting on the Dire Straits story. Thanks
Could you also talk about what things you wanted to change from the 242 when you designed the 292.
How hard would it be to have my fast attack comp setting be 1ms versus 3ms when I choose fast attack setting?
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Hi,
242 bell on 292 is a tricky one - I don't know for sure what the bell Q on the 242 is (I probably knew in 1985!), I would start with the Q on the 292 as low as possible and see what it sounds like. I think it should be possible to get reasonably close, our idea was that you could use the mid bands as bell.
When designing the 292 we didn't look at the 242 at all, the idea at the start was that customers could choose either. Rest of the story will follow, honest, I'll need a break from writing Christmas cards soon ;)
Try soldering a 100R resistor across R19 on the '10 card - I can't guarantee how much it will speed up the attack but it should be a bit faster. I wouldn't go any lower than that as you'll probably stress the op-amp.
Cheers,
Andy
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Thanks Andy.
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Has anybody used Maselec 9001 eq? My SSL 4000E has 8 of those. What do you think about them? Maybe they are quite rare? Well, I personally like them.
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I think Funky Junk has alot of Masalec eq cards for some reason.
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Good article from Studio Sound 1991.
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Hi,
They published my response to that article (which I agree is very good) shortly afterwards (maybe in the next issue?), I think I've got a copy somewhere but if anyone else can find it and stick it here it would be good. I think it's titled "EQ Empirically: A response".
Cheers,
Andy
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Hey Andy. Your reply is already uploaded. Image #3. Thanks
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I like the 02 Brown eq best, Idk what difference there is to 242 in circuit etc except the filter switch on/off
There is a pretty big difference when using Bell in HF LF where the 242 seems to narrow the q the more boost? 242 sounds spikey and not as musical as 02 to me, anyone have information about what differs, just read some fragments here and there
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Hey Andy. Your reply is already uploaded. Image #3. Thanks
Whoops...I need a holiday! :-[
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I like the 02 Brown eq best, Idk what difference there is to 242 in circuit etc except the filter switch on/off
There is a pretty big difference when using Bell in HF LF where the 242 seems to narrow the q the more boost? 242 sounds spikey and not as musical as 02 to me, anyone have information about what differs, just read some fragments here and there
The filters are quite different, but the changes to the main eq are a bit subtle. Lots of people preferred the 242, personally I agree with you - I prefer the 02.
When I get five minutes I'll add a detail description of the differences...
Cheers,
Andy
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Ok, I've been slightly foiled by the fact that I can't see what the Q of the bell on the 242 is (because unlike the 02 it's adjustable). Other than that:
HF/LF
242 has greater boost and cut than the 02 (18dB rather than 15dB IIRC?), and possibly a different Q in bell? There will be very, very subtle differences in the shapes of the 242 compared to the 02 at very high and very low frequencies.
HMF
02 and 242 are identical.
LMF
242 has slightly wider and shifted frequency range compared to the 02. The 02 is 193Hz to 2080Hz, 242 is 135Hz to 2010Hz.
Low Cut Filter
242 is more like the 132 than it is the 02. It is 18db/octave rather than 12db/octave (i.e. steeper), and has the "switch out" function which is definitely a Good Thing!! The shape of the roll-off is subtly different to the 132, I'd need to run a simulation to find out if it's looser or tighter.
High Cut Filter
Again, the 242 is more like the 132 with the 18db/octave roll off and "switch out". It operates at very slightly higher frequencies than the 132.
So overall they're less different than I remembered them being, the real difference is the extra boost on HF and LF, and the better "cut" filters. I think the reason I didn't like the 242s was because of the JFETs in the HF and LF stages, but whether I could really hear them or just imagined I could (because I knew that they were there) I don't know.
This has reminded me that I was puzzled at the time that people liked the 242s so much given the subtlety of the changes - it may well actually have been because having the "filter out" switches made the whole channel strip sound better.
Cheers,
Andy
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to reference the original articles, here is the link to a site where Studio Sound is archived in pdf form
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Studio-Sound-IDX/search.cgi?zoom_sort=0&zoom_xml=0&zoom_query=EQ+Empirically&zoom_per_page=10
Cheers
Alan
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Thanks Alan. That's a great source.
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I could up a compare between the 2 eqs, if the 242 eq could be altered alot, maybe my console had some strange calibration so would be nice to know, but over here it differs alot in HF and LF using Bell, 242 seems to be very spickey and squashy boosting in bell in HF and resonates like crazy in the LF so I suspect it has a narrower q boosting higher there aswell
never heard any difference with switch on/off on the filters, really??
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I wonder if somebody's tweaked the Q (RV1 and RV4) on your HF and LF bells up too much? When they're set right the mid band of the bell should have the same gain as the flat part of the shelf.
If they're VERY early 242s (1984) I hope the test sticker doesn't say AM on it ;)
Re the lack of switches on the '02: it's not a ridiculous amount it rolls off, but it does start having an effect at 20Hz and 20kHz, I've just read that I pointed this out in that Studio Sound article!
Cheers,
Andy
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Hey Andy.
I'm going to throw this out there.......you ready?
You want to design us a new eq. card for the modern era.
Yea it's crazy talk....crazy.
It would be so awesome to have a new take on the eq and compressor cards in 2018.
Maybe start a thread talking about these ideas then maybe someone will take those ideas to the next stage. The power of the internet, you never know.
I'll stop typing now........
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Anyone know where to get some of these 9001 cards from today? I'm looking for a few :D
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Wish they could fix all the pics files that are missing in these threads.
Hey Andy. Hope to hear from you soon.....we miss you!