SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: mg73 on March 28, 2018, 06:42:16 AM
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My console 4056G+ came with a motionworker system
I have a Microlynx which controls my MM1200 and PT now.
Is there a way to get the Motionworker to control the Microlynx
or should I ditch it and get a LYNX II for the MM1200 instead?
The Motionworker can control the AVID sync I/O direct with the RS232 protocol , right?
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There must be a manual on the web.
Some info on motionworker setup at end of pdf attached.
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If you are happy with the operation of your Microlynx control of the 1200 and PT, why change anything?
Just feed the LTC to the desk and be done with it.
Or are their other interfaces implemented in the Motionworker that you would like to keep?
Alan
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I want the SSL to be the remote,that seems like a better workflow and cleaner work area.
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Clip 6
For the record, the people behind Motionworker were UK based SSL design engineers and not Adam Smith techs. The Adam Smith equipment was bought in by SSL from the USA and SSL used it to control more than one tape machine.
None of those Motionworker people are involved within the Pro-Audio industry any more, as far as I can tell but, I wish you good luck with sourcing any info you may require.
I worked on the Adam Smith lead requirements at SSL and afterwards for Motionworks but do not have any technical knowledge of how they worked.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
PS: Must post some more wiring info on the wiring menu. Any wiring issues anyone?
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Thanks Jim.
I sent email about George's contact info.
Thanks
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I found my old Motionworker manual in an old paper folder.....ha no pdf's back in 1992.
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I got the manuals, both Tech and operation manuals.
But would love a quick dummy guide
to point my quick in the right way.
Bought a couple of LYNX II to replace the Microlynx seems to be more suitable for the Motionworker.
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Great. You'll get it. Maybe someone else will chime in.
So you have the section 5 in ops manual that says how to setup with ssl?
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Thanks for getting back!
Section 5 in my Op manual are the Panel system
Section 21 are SSL program setup if that is what you mean,
and I have setup up the SSL computer as it says in the manual.
And I can see the SSL's computer getting EBU/smpte when playing the MotionWorker
I've gotten the motionworker to read and generate smpte
but still not able to get it to talk to my Lynx (Ampex MM1200)
I connected the DB9 cable between Lynx and MW's JR3 port
The MW manual is not super clear how to set it up
for Lynx synchroniser.
Also could the MW talk directly to my DAW?
It's protools running Sync I/O for smpte and USA-28X serial to usb
or do I need to a Lynx for that to?
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So back in the day before PT, we only used the Motionworker when we had two multitracks. You could offset one machine against the other and fly parts from one machine to the other.
If you just have one machine you might just use Lynx. More people can help with that setup.
I use 2tools to control PT.
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First, get the lynx II to control the MM1200
if you can use the lynx front panel ply, ffwd, rew buttons, you have control
then you know that is working correctly,
then get the MM1200 to chase LTC with just its Lynx, LTC from any source
in other words, chew it up bite at a time.
do you have a video reference (house sync)?
needed to have real lock (there are other ways)
I don't know MW, is it in there?
where did the db9 cable come from? Make sure it is configured correctly, I forget, but I think it needs to cross over T & R, check that.
you have the url to get all the Lynx documents? John Klett has the documents online at http://www.technicalaudio.com/pdf/TimeLine/
Cheers
Alan
ps
note in the pdf on the previous message, the WC is derived from Video Black. The video and the WC need to be derived from a common source, or you drift. (synchronous) This can be done better than in that document by using a clock generator that generate both video black and WC from a master oscillator. Brainstorm and Rosendahl make them as well as some others. Generating WC from video is prone to jitter.
or you turn it around and use your PT to generate WC and control things from the computer, which is not what you are looking for as I understand it. Does anyone know of a unit that goes WC to video? that would allow the digital rig to have control of WC.
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Everything is solid and working between MM1200 and LYNX II.
I have a rosendahl Nanosync both providing WC(AD/DA, SYNC I/O etc) and House clock(to MW, LYNX II, SYNC I/O)
I'm pretty sure everything is setup right,
I can control the MW from the transport buttons on the SSL centre section
and see timecode in the SSL computer
But the problem is to get communication working between the LYNX and MW
I'm starting to think that something is wrong with the MW perhaps the PAL ID rom or something else
I been over the MW manuals for setting up Timeline LYNX several times without making the MW seeing it...
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sorry, can't help, I have no experience with MW
sounds like you are on the right track.
Cheers
Alan
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Solved,
The Motionworker didn't have the the two IC's needed for Lynx operationen,
which I was told it have...
Instead it had the two "Perfect machine" IC's
Anyone wanna trade or have a pair for sale?
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Great!
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(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa147/glava_01/IMG_1910_zpsko85xlbz.png)
Ampex MM1200 and ProTools HD rock solid lock!
Thanks Chris Myring for providing my EPROM and helping me out.
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Your now the motionworker guru on the forum ;D
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Your now the motionworker guru on the forum ;D
Bring it on! :P
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Your now the motionworker guru on the forum ;D
Bring it on! :P
Hi mg73
Could you describe your machine control settings in pro tools (normal serial control or deck emulation mode?) and the connection to and settings in the motionworker?
Would be very much appriciated!
Thanks in advance
Uffe
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Yes Deck emulation. USB to serial with a FTDI converter.
Motionwork is setup for serial control(S.C.) on A (nr11)
and adress E.E(nr14)
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Thanks for the details Mattias
I have the same Z8 comm issue (referring to the another tread on this forum) when booting ssl cpu and will return when I have solved that hurdle.
But in the meantime I also have a lot of questions flying around in my head regarding your Motionworker setup.
Mattias could you describe how your system is set up. Please, I know I am a bit of a noob in this field at the moment :)
A: Who is the LTC/SMPTE master: The MW perfect machine or your tape machine or Pro Tools/Sync HD?
B: The MW then sends machine control over rs422 on MW port JR2 to Keyspan USA28x serial adapter to mac running pro tools?
C: If you run Pro tools in the “Remote 9-Pin Deck Emulation” then you cannot control the transport from within Pro Tools, correct? Do you then switch the remote mode on and off when you want to say make audio edits in your pro tools session ie. use the pro tools transport?
D:Do the SSL computer get the LTC over the Z8 card or do you have the LTC connected throught the MW and the LTC mater out goes to the normal SSL CPU TC reader?
E:The MM1200 is connected to a lynx 2 that must be transport controls and tach signals, varispeed controls and reading a tape track with SMPTE on it to resolve to incoming data from MW? How is the Lynx 2 connected to the MW? A 9 pin serial port with both timecode and command data?
Thanks a lot in advance! It is very much appreciated. Have a nice day :)
Best regards,
Uffe
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A: Who is the LTC/SMPTE master: The MW perfect machine or your tape machine or Pro Tools/Sync HD?
Mostly MW if PT and tape are synced.
But if I just use PT I let PT control the SSL automation
I works faster for me instead of using the SSL remote.
B: The MW then sends machine control over rs422 on MW port JR2 to Keyspan USA28x serial adapter to mac running pro tools?
Yes. But I use https://www.ftdichip.com/
C: If you run Pro tools in the “Remote 9-Pin Deck Emulation” then you cannot control the transport from within Pro Tools, correct? Do you then switch the remote mode on and off when you want to say make audio edits in your pro tools session ie. use the pro tools transport?
PT can control SSL if you not are ONLINE.
D:Do the SSL computer get the LTC over the Z8 card or do you have the LTC connected throught the MW and the LTC mater out goes to the normal SSL CPU TC reader?
Yes the SSL port on the MW goes to port 2 on Z8
remember to activate it in SSL
E:The MM1200 is connected to a lynx 2 that must be transport controls and tach signals, varispeed controls and reading a tape track with SMPTE on it to resolve to incoming data from MW? How is the Lynx 2 connected to the MW? A 9 pin serial port with both timecode and command data?
The Lynx are connected with a serial cable to MW
Check manual for specific port etc. The MW needs to have the LYNX eprom.
Chris Myring is the man for that.
Thanks a lot in advance! It is very much appreciated. Have a nice day :)
Best regards,
Uffe
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Thanks again Mattias. Regarding your answer D I didn't get if you need the LTC from PT/MW to go to the normal SSL CPU TC reader card or if the parallel data interface on the Z8 takes care of this?
I will tackle my clients setup sometime in the near future but in the meantime I have written the below to get feedback from all users with any experience in this and also try to collect scattered info for future reference:
Best modern Motionworker setup:
What is the best way to set up the MW up in a modern workflow? The design and manuals (referring to “Motion worker system v5 technical manual” and “Motion worker system v5 operators manual”) are from the nineties and do not take into account the modern DAW workflows.
Objectives:
X: I believe we all want Pro Tools to be the master supplying the LTC/SMPTE so it doesn't need to chase to incoming SMPTE creating jitter and other digital artefacts when varying the wordclock to stick in sync. This is mentioned in the Konnektor documentation.
Y: We would like to have control of the pro tools timeline from both within pro tools, the ssl transport keys and the the ssl cpu (goto commands etc) like the Konnektor / SSL Virtual Tape Machine (ref: horizonsound on this forum) provides.
Z: The use of the Motionworker instead of a Konnektor / SSL Virtual Tape Machine provides the additional benefits of having one or more synchroniser (Lynx II, Adams-Smith, Audio Kinetics etc) controlling reel to reel tape decks chasing the DAW.
Possible solution:
The best solution I could think up and that I havn’t got even close to running yet:
1: Pro Tools provides the master LTC/SMPTE either using an Avid Sync i/o if you use earlier versions than Pro Tools HD 11 or Avid Sync HD or an audio track with a LTC/SMPTE file. This goes to the MW JR14 Machine A in (hot pin 9, cold pin 22, gnd pin 10). Or should it simply be MTC generated from Pro Tools to MW midi in and mw option
2: Pro tools takes in machine commands somehow… midi MMC from Motionworker Serial port B Midi out set to mw option 11=Au Automation (MMC) (mw tech man 13-3) and mw option13=31 and mw option 14=B.B maybe? But this Automation option might not contain standard MMC? Pro Tools will respond to MMC if you enable “MIDI Machine Control Remote (Slave)” (ID important? 127) without being online as well as it is always sending out mmc referring to the Konnektor user guide .
3: Pro tools sends machine commands to Motionworker Midi in (enable mw option 10 but only stop and play commands supported in mw?).
4: SSL CPU Z8 pcb is connected to MW port JR7 with 26pin IDC to 25Pin Dsub female cable S88E for parallel data (not longer than 4 meters refering to recycled audio ssl computer pdf).
5: A dsub 25 male/female cable connected from the SSL s29e (at the console patch) to MW JR5.
(6: do we need to send LTC to the SSL CPU Timecode reader input or is the timecode to SSL provided over the Z8 paralelle data interface?)
References:
Pro Tools Reference guide 2020.3 Chapter 59: MachineControl https://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/PT/Pro_Tools_Reference_Guide_2020.3.pdf
Konnektor user guide which is not available on the internet.
I think the motion worker manuals are not scanned yet anywhere on the internet, right?
The Computer Rack - Recycled Audiowww.recycledaudio.co.uk › computerconfiguration
Please shoot back any feedback about these thoughts and let me know if I am just plain crazy :) Is the only way to get to my objectives to have a Konnektor / SSL Virtual Tape Machine and then try to connect directly from Pro Tools to synchroniser over sony 9pin for example?
Thanks a lot for reading to the bottom of this post! Have a nice day :)
Best regards,
Uffe