SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: Matt Sartori on September 08, 2012, 10:47:43 PM
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Hello everybody,
good news for whoever is sick of his old PSU packing up, wants to power cycle the console at ease or simply save money on electricity bills...
I've just received an email from Norman Druce who (by kind permission) I am quoting here:
"The prototype will go into service in Nashville oct 10th, the details are being worked now, The unit will power a 72 desk without a change over, via 2 standard cables. I will try to post something soon, or feel free to say something on the forum. Thanks. N"
so we shall soon have more news!
Mattia.
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My tech believes that switch mode supplies are quite problematic and actually prefer to be left on.
Stef.
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My tech believes that switch mode supplies are quite problematic and actually prefer to be left on.
Stef.
I have used switch mode for a while (even for serious loads) I think that if the system is designed well it will not have any problem.
the majority of things we use now days are switch mode, from computer to speakers to amplifiers to interfaces and so on..
your Adam S3As have a switch mode PSU (and class D amplifier designed by Bang and Holufsen inside), your digi 192 are switch mode...
beside a normal PSU has an efficency of around 20% while a GOOD switch mode can go up to 90% this means that you can save about 70% on energy bills..
I think it's worth waiting and see..
Mattia.
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Cool, I'm REALLY curious about this. And the cost of course.
Stef.
PS Mattia, can't thank you enough for starting this place! Thanks!
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Cool, I'm REALLY curious about this. And the cost of course.
Stef.
PS Mattia, can't thank you enough for starting this place! Thanks!
thank you! it's a great place because of the people in here!
Mattia.
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switching psu on this side too! if you want to save some money on electricity bills thats the way to go.;)
gabriel
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Just received an email from Norman Druce, here is the front panel of his SMPS:
(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o496/mata_haze/Norman-Druce-PSU_zps7add3ec4.jpg)
72 channels from 1 PSU...seems pretty good ;)
I guess we'll have to wait for more news...
Mattia.
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Very interesting!
I'm really curious about this. I'm also curious about the effects it has on the consoles sound.
Any more news? Got a price yet?
Stef.
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Very interesting!
I'm really curious about this. I'm also curious about the effects it has on the consoles sound.
Any more news? Got a price yet?
Stef.
not as yet...I am waiting for Norman to do the official statement.
apparently it's even quieter than the original SSL psu... so let's wait and see.
He told me the psu will be in service very soon and it will be beta tested.
Mattia.
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Sweet.
Now if we could just get someone to write an emulator of the computer for a PC that would be awesome!
I spoke to someone here in Sydney, he was considering it years ago and said it could be done.
C'mon, we can play space invaders and pac man on a PC.. surely we can get the G auto and recall too?!?! :-*
Ste.f
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Hi everyone,
I worked with some guys up in New York a couple of years ago that were talking about building a Mac that would run the G Series Automation. Last time I heard from them, they dropped the idea because the time, money, and effort that would be put into development would be too much. There isn't enough consoles out there with owners who are willing to buy something like this to even break even with the production costs. And with Pro Tools, it doesn't seem like there is enough engineers out there that use the VCA Automation. I would love to see someone develop this, working on the G Computers is a pain.
The switching PSU's is an interesting idea. I am curious to how they will turn out and sound. I would be concerned about having noise issues. The 9000J uses switching supplies, along with about 600lbs of transformers for filtering and power conditioning. Hope it turns out well and is a success, Good Luck
V
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I'm Interested.
Great site BTW.
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Update? Dreaming of quite power supply and modern computer replacement (which is on the way as we know...)
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Update? Dreaming of quite power supply and modern computer replacement (which is on the way as we know...)
received an email recently saying that the prototype is under test, so I am waiting to hear back from him.
I am going to drop him a line again!
Mattia.
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Yes I had to completely redesign the unit since last time we talked, the good news is
we now have a working unit and all the modules are available in the states. I was
have problems with the Chinese manufacture and communication. the only difference
is these units have low noise fans that always run. During bench testing we had it
loaded with equivalent of a 56ch desk it barely got warm and was only drawing only about
7 amps @ 120vac! next week we will be testing it on a 4k, then it will go to nashville for critical
testing. if all goes smooth we will be able to ship units at the end of the month.
After critical testing I will be taking pre orders price will be $3200 it will have a
2 year warranty and be user serviceable and is will cut you energy bill by >50%. N
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Hey Max!
Does PSU contain 250V rail for bargraphs?
Propably it will work 230VAC also?
-Paavo
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I doubt it does.
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$200 extra for the 250v, and yes it will run on 240vac.
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Excellent!
Do you have any future plans to make other PSUs also, like for computer and Moving Faders (audio and logics)?
-Paavo
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I heard somebody is making a new computer (on gs) but yes we do want to make moving fader supplies,
I currently don't have the data. if you can provide it, email me at normandruceaudio@gmail.com
thanks! N
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Ok guys, the unit has been tested on a 32ch 4K E desk here in Detroit, with great success!
It LOWERED the noise floor by 7.87dBu (20hz to 80khz) and power consumption about 40%
This version does use fans but they are very quiet compared to the original, It has 3 digital
meters with trim a pot underneath them to make calibration fun instead of the safety hazard of
the old supply. The unit also has 2 output bics and It should be able to power a 56ch desk no
problem (it's rated to operate up to 25 amp, a 48ch uses 14amps) you can also turn it on and
off as much as you like without powering up the buckets one at a time. We can make a unit to
power a 96ch desk for $4500. I will warranty the unit for 2 years and the modules are user
replaceable at $400 for the audio rails and $200 for logic. The price for the base unit is $3200
and $3400 for the plasma version. We are now taking pre-orders for the first 10 at $2900 these
units will be delivered in march. pics coming soon. you will be able to read about this units travel
and torture test in Nashville in TapeOp via F. Ried Shippen. Be well. normandruce@gmail.com
normandruceaudio.com
vintagessl.com
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wow! This is very good news! :D
Great work! :D I'm eager to hear from the first owners!
vintage SSL lives forever!! 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Congrats! Loosing allmost 8 dB's ain't easy task at allready low noise levels.
One questions still:
Are voltages measured at output of the PSU?
IMO one and only place to measure voltages is at center section, no matter what is feeding juice to the console. If voltages are measured at output of the PSU it does not take account of small amount of R in cables and pcb's. With this high currents it really means when +/-18V has to be in tolerance of 100mV.
-Paavo
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Really keen to hear if there have been any changes to the console's headroom and sound..
How heavy is the unit? I'm curious what it would cost to send to Australia.
Stef.
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Good news!
Looking forward to see how it performs aswell!
Would be nice to know how much noise the fans does, like a PC?
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Stefan asked about delivery charges for the switch mode supply. If it is any guide, I've looked up a 15kg parcel, 60 x 50 x 20 cm sent from the UK to Australia and the cost is £70 plus insurance (only up to £1000 though) for a 4-5 day service.
Obviously, it would be different if sent from the US and the weight may not be 15kg (probably less I guess) but it gives you some indication of the price perhaps. As Stefan knows, delivery times can be quite quick these days. I sent him some patchbays on a Friday from the UK and he had them by Monday and that was without any premium paid for a faster service!
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The unit weighs 22lbs. The voltages on the front panel are the voltages at the supply, so yes you can get over a half volt
drop to the desk from the cables so they need to be measured at the center section then corrected at the supply, the meters
just make it much easier to tweak the voltages (fun compared to calibrating 2 of the old units!) and as you can see the 6.5
volt meter is there because that is the voltage you read and tweak when calibrating according to the manual. (diff. between
+18 and logic "13") since the unit has massive current capability and massive storage and filtration the sound of the desk
should only improve. The 7.87 dBm I gained in signal to noise when testing on this local 4032 could have came from the
fact the filter caps could be going in its aging supply or some sort of ground issue. Our supply has chassis (earth ground)
and audio 0v on the back via banana jacks so you can ground it any way you want. The pictured unit is a prototype.
The factory unit will be 3 inches deeper and will probably have the vents on the sides. I am selling the first ten at
$2900 for the base unit, $3000 for the plasma version. In order to get this price you will need to paypal $1000 deposit.
the noise specs in these pics are from a poorly maintained E series with all channels on and god knows what patched in.
I just measured it exactly as it was. Thanks for the push! N
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7 dBu less noise and about 40% less watts. with a bigger desk I think you will see more than 50% savings
after you remove all the extra heat from the p.s. room.
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And the unit auto switches between 120/240 v.a.c.
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The fans are quieter than one of the 3 old supplies fans (I am using one to cool the test rig) I will get a db
rating, I think its quieter than the old G5's If I remember right.
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Emailed my tech (Who is currently in the UK) about the new PSU, this is what he said..
"Reliability is the key with switched mode
supplies and obviously the initial cost. Do you have any more links for some more information. There will
also be the inevitable the old ones sound better than the new ones !! Second and third stage filtering
of the DC will also be critical as the channels in the board having been designed with linear supplies in mind
and all the high frequency artefacts from the switched mode DC will have to be completely filtered out.
Instantaneous current delivery is the next issue since if it below spec, users will complain about the bottom end
being different. Great idea though if properly designed and implemented."
Stef.
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Mattia told me: SSL went Switch mode with the 9K and added a 6U (or about that) filter unit for the supply, huge smoothing Caps, and the like to filter the artefacts.
Having run a bucket Switchmode, using an existing Allen&Heath console supply, (used for Front of House 40CH with VCA groups) with a 6V logic supply hanging backwards, it sounded good, the supply still had good smoothing Caps, and was design with audio in mind.
Power supplies have improved, and this supply uses standard off the shelf modules, that were almost certainly not designed for audio, good or bad the proof is in the listening.
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I think there's no doubt is switched mode PSU's usable in audio applications. Let's think about Lab Gruppen power amps for example. Huge amounts of current flowing through them.
One more question popped in my mind:
What kind of protection circuits new PSU has?
-Paavo
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The units have a tuned common mode filter and over 100,000uf capacitor bank right at the output.
Noise was lower with our supply compared to the old SSL unit out to 300Khz and ours has twice the
output current capability, about 70 amps total continuous (140 in the larger unit) We also filter the
A.C. "input" 8)
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Our S.M. SSL power supply has over voltage, over current, over heat protection,
as well as all voltage rails are fused according to your channel count, a main A.C.
fuse and thermistor soft start. ;)
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Hi Xmax. Thanks for the various updates on your switch mode power supply. Along with the Dramastic computer development, there seems to be long awaited upgrade products for various SSL replacements potentially available.
I wonder if any Beta sample products could be evalulated by experienced techs outside of the US so they could report back to this forum to provide customer and supplier feedback. Perhaps it could be done on a loan basis or reduced cost so they can give their opinions. I'm sure it would be worth your while.
This forum was started by Mattia Sartori (Mata Haze) who normally resides in Italy and often visits the UK. Andy Henderson (Sintech, an SSL user who has built his own console from spare parts) is also an experienced tech and engineer.
I have no interest in this as I just wire things but various people on this site are very interested so please bear this in mind and contact these guys direct. If your product works and these guys like it, they will recommend it on this forum to other members and viewers.
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The prototype is currently being tested in Nashville by various well known engineers on several
desks these results will be available in the next couple of weeks, as far as "outside the US"
no one has contacted me about beta testing. thanks. N
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Ok, I have made arrangements to send the first "production" supply to Mattia Sartori
around the end of the month. To correct a earlier post our supply modules are
not off the shelf units they are being custom made for us, the enclosure aslo contains
our high current filters that we make in-house as well as additional over voltage and over
current protection. People must remember the SSL supply was designed over 30 years
ago with additional "protection" added in the 80's. Technology has come a long way since then!
I have rebuilt many, many of them and know them well, my back hurts just thinking about
them! :o and If any of you techies out there are wondering if our logic rail is hanging of
the +18 rail, it is exactly as the original and our logic volt meter measures the difference
for ease of calibration. thanks for all the intrest! N
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I REALLY hope this works out.
You could've sent it here Norman. :) I have sessions all through March and April.
S
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It has already proven itself in the field, just not with a lot of studios because the production units are not shipping yet. N
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Hi,
Very interested in this power supply. Can you advise on where/how to buy?
Price?
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Bump???
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It's all covered in this thread allready. xmax is the person and price is around 3000usd.
-Paavo
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151301822072283&set=vb.535492282&type=2&theater
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Link does not work. I'm getting "content not available" kinda notice.
-Paavo
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Check out F. Reid Shippen's beta test video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTGhlvl78yA&feature=youtu.be
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._Reid_Shippen
vintagessl.com
normandruceaudio.com
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We will have 4 units in the field by the end of the month. N
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We will have 4 units in the field by the end of the month. N
THUMBS UP! :)
Mattia.
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You definitely need to have somebody in Germany test it!! :P
We will have 4 units in the field by the end of the month. N
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dig it!
James
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Update: F. Reid Shippen and I formed a new company that will be building the switch mode power supplies,
he has been running his 4048 for a couple months now with our first "production" unit with excellent results.
He also turns off his desk when leaving for a couple days and turns the whole thing back on at-once because
our supply has a inrush/soft start circuit that is much easier on the electronics than the one bucket at a time
method, we will be up and running in the next 60 days and we will be cranking these things out, we settled
on a up to 56 channel model with the option of plasma metering, with a larger unit on the way. I have been
very busy building this Altec console for Dan Auerbach and it also uses our switch mode supply and filter. N
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We are also possibly implementing a remote shut off via phone or "home" automation system. cheers. N
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http://www.atomicinstrument.com/ new pics soon.
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151800740632283&set=a.493261122282.268373.535492282&type=1&theater¬if_t=mentions_comment
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=562177833857938&set=a.172378606171198.43114.154448727964186&type=1&theater
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It's time we got some information about this.
Pre-release hype to the point of the Mackie Digital 8 buss.
Some concrete info please!
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Sorry! all is finally sorted.
This model runs up to 56ch, (larger unit in development now)
It uses about 40% less energy
It can lower your quad buss noise floor by up to 6dBu
It has less fan noise
It puts off about 500 watts less heat
It makes your console sound better (blind test with several well known engineers)
In the event of a black/brownout, it shuts itself off until you turn it back on.
It can run 120 and 220.
A separate add-on 265v power supply for plasma meters, will be available in feb. 2014
5 year warranty
$5000
Ordering and shipping in January 2014
Sorry so many things have changed since the beginning of this thread I apologize, I was lucky
enough to gain a business partner that allowed us to make a much more robust design with more
advanced protection and provide world class customers support! Happy Holidays!
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sounds good, a little more info please.
air flow path? side to side, back to side, back to top, etc
over current limit protection?
over voltage limit protection?
remote or local regulation?
Cheers and happy solstice,
Alan Garren
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Airflow: The cabinet is about 19" deep, approximately the rear 5" has vents on the top and bottom.
Over current protection: Yes multiple, each module has built in current protection, plus there is a fuse on each rail.
Over voltage protection: yes multiple, each module has built in overvoltage protection, plus there are added scr crowbars.
Local regulation, adjustable via front panel pot with front panel meters, the system can be calibrated in less than 10 min.
No modifications need to be performed to anything and you no longer need to use a power sucking change over unit.
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http://www.atomicinstrument.com/ new pics soon.
If you build your power supplies like you build your website I would be seriously worried!
The order page doesn't work at all!
And no photos?
You could spend half an hour and improve your website a lot, and make your possible clients much happier.
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The website will be fully operational soon.
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http://www.atomicinstrument.com/ new pics soon.
If you build your power supplies like you build your website I would be seriously worried!
The order page doesn't work at all!
And no photos?
You could spend half an hour and improve your website a lot, and make your possible clients much happier.
Give the guy a break!
Just because someone is a designer/developer it doesn't automatically make him/her a businessman.
I'll say: forget about the www and continue to focus on your product.
It's ready when it's ready.
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I'm even worse at website shit!
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Hi Xmax,
I have a client here in New Zealand who would like to buy one of your supplies. He has tried to contact you but has not been successful. I suspect he is not alone! Tell us, do you want to sell these supplies? If so, you need to communicate with your possible clients.
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There are many many people waiting and I share their frustrations, I never realized the insane amount of things
needed to launch this thing correctly, but I assure you, we are building the first 10 and we will be taking orders
in February. Best regards. N
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The thing is, if you were taking orders now you might be building 20! And I'm back to nagging about that website again!
The client has an old and dodgy supply, he would really like to know that he could talk to you and order a supply, and have some idea when it would turn up.
I personally think it is a great idea that you are doing this as I like to see the old gear kept going. But please try and understand things from the customer perspective too. In these days of 'buy anything on the Internet' we are all used to instant gratification.
And of course the most important part of a console is the power supply.
If you want some help with the website, I would be happy to do some for you. I only do basic html pages, but in this case thats all you need. You can get Kompozer and Filezilla for free on the web, all you need for simple html pages.
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Again We can take his order in February and ship within 30 days
of deposit. Thanks. N
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Hi Xmax
After reading posts on your new replacement SSL PSU for a while it seems like you are having difficulty with getting a new and potentially useful product ready for eager buyers and marketing it at the same time. There are numerous jobs to do at once and it must be very time consuming especially if you are alone on this (I'm not sure).
I am not a tech nor SSL owner (just a wiring dude) but perhaps I can suggest that you potentially think about getting a few trusted and experienced people in different Countries to Beta test one of your new supplies. This would cost shipping fees of course and you would need to agree some form of contract such as sale or return but, at least it may help establish some credibility to begin with.
Surely most people would only commit several thousand Dollars to something new only after having it reviewed by a third party. This forum provides the right people to make their judgement before others follow and buy it.
Secondly, the marketing has to almost happen at the same time as the design, modify and build process and you probably can't find time to do both. Maybe get some help with this so someone else can set up your website (someone on this forum has already offered) as a working template with some info and pictures while you concentrate on what you are good at, the electronics I guess!
Take more detailed pictures, front and back, including some inside ones to get more people interested. Do your spreadsheet costings and look at leadtimes for components and assembly work sub contracted out, either near to you or in other Countries.
Get your logistics sorted so you can handle production, sales and purchase orders, client details, modification sheets, documentation, terms, ROHS, credit accounts with suppliers, quality control, possibly foreign exchange accounts, warranties, stock control, reliable couriers etc ... Heck the list goes on!
And you have to have your cashflow planned correctly especially as you are just starting in this venture. This is VERY important as it generally means lots of outlay up front before you see some proper returns. If you get this aspect wrong, you could lose orders if you can't get the parts and assemblies in time. This is a stressful time but just needs some proper planning in advance assuming the product is good and can eventually sell.
There is a lot of work to do and I doubt you can manage all this by yourself, hence my suggestion. I worked at SSL from 1980 till 87 and know what initial problems they had with designing, making, changing, marketing and actually selling their product (just the 4k at the time) so I am just offering this advice as I realise that there are a lot of things to attend to all at once.
My thoughts above also apply to the people on this forum designing and possibly producing a new SSL computer system which also looks an exciting product. A new PSU and, especially a replacement computer system, would really help to keep the older SSL consoles alive. Good luck people.
Hope this helps from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
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Good advice, every single point you mentioned has been addressed: hence the long wait.
My business Partner is 9 time Grammy winner F. Reid Shippen who also holds a degree
in marketing, He has been willing to put his reputation and wallet on the line for this
product. He has been mixing with the prototype for 8 months, I trust his judgment and
we are doing everything by the book and it takes time! We have had multiple blind
test all over the country with the first production unit with multiple grammy winning
engineers, all this data will be on the official website very soon.
This is a video of me adjusting the incoming AC from 250v to 60v! granted, in actual
use under load, the unit would shut down at about 90vac, but this video demonstrates
seemingly impossible regulation and voltage compatibility! thanks for taking your time
to try help a fellow lead huffer !
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=576012545807800&set=vb.154448727964186&type=2&theater
let me know if the link works! I will also get it up on youtube.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO0KLAf2cBY
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try again, its marked as private.
This is not rocket science folks, it is a switching psu, these are the traits of most all switching supplies. And it is one of the reasons why we want to use them.
Alan
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Try now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO0KLAf2cBY
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Mr. Bear, is the video available now? and I have referenced your web sites schematics section many times
and very much appreciate you having taking the time to create it! I am a tube lover myself, but the ssl
community has been longing for this product for a long time, somebody had to to it!
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seems to work now.
And I'm glad you have taken on this mission! Someone needed to do it. Although it's fairly "straightforward" its still full of potential hidden traps and foibles. As all design projects are.
I'm tired of fixing those old beasts!
Alan
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It has been a bitch!
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Hey its February 1 here in New Zealand, can we order yet?
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Now its Feb 1 in the US, surely we can order now?
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Now its Feb 1 in the US, surely we can order now?
I strongly recommend start taking it easy on Norman (xmax).
this is not Gearslutz mate, you want it now? go and buy an iphone, that is instant gratification.
you are not happy with the website/selling procedure/not responding to emails?
build yourself a PSU and stop pestering on the forum
thank you.
Mattia.
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Mea culpa!
The thing is I absolutely wish Norman all the best in this enterprise, as if it works out I would like one of my customers to buy one of his supplies. And you are right, I could get off my butt and build one, but it would be way more expensive than buying one of Normans.
But do I take it that you consider it OK to offer a product, and then not deliver? Norman has used this forum to bring it to the attention of SSL owners, and this is where I first saw it. Nothing wrong with that.
I am well aware of how long it takes to build things, and the problems of doing this. But Norman said ordering could begin in February.
Its now February. And Norman is very hard to get hold of. I have left my email on his website.
My client has a very dodgy power supply, and I would really like for him to get a nice new one, and hopefully Norman will make some money out of it, and we will all be happy. I don't think implying that I am some sort of Gearslutz Slut is very helpfull to any of us.
If I order something from Mouser, and there is no stock, they tell me. Similarly Norman could have a list of prospective customers, and let them know what is going on. Its not hard to do, and it keeps your clients informed. And the more he makes, the more profit he makes, so its all good.
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It ain't K-Mart!
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Mea culpa!
The thing is I absolutely wish Norman all the best in this enterprise, as if it works out I would like one of my customers to buy one of his supplies. And you are right, I could get off my butt and build one, but it would be way more expensive than buying one of Normans.
But do I take it that you consider it OK to offer a product, and then not deliver? Norman has used this forum to bring it to the attention of SSL owners, and this is where I first saw it. Nothing wrong with that.
I am well aware of how long it takes to build things, and the problems of doing this. But Norman said ordering could begin in February.
Its now February. And Norman is very hard to get hold of. I have left my email on his website.
My client has a very dodgy power supply, and I would really like for him to get a nice new one, and hopefully Norman will make some money out of it, and we will all be happy. I don't think implying that I am some sort of Gearslutz Slut is very helpfull to any of us.
If I order something from Mouser, and there is no stock, they tell me. Similarly Norman could have a list of prospective customers, and let them know what is going on. Its not hard to do, and it keeps your clients informed. And the more he makes, the more profit he makes, so its all good.
we are all sorry to hear your customer PSU has failed, get a tech to come in for the the short run and wait until Norman is ready.
it does not matter what I consider ok, this is business : if Norman cannot deliver what you need when you need it find another solution but don't explain your expectations on here, we all have understood where you coming from.
if you have paid for the item already you can complain,sue or report the company to the Police, Government, Mi6 CIA, FBI
if not wait in line until you get attended.
As simple as that.
AGAIN: Norman ain't mouser, nor a big company: so don't compare the services.
this is BOUTIQUE TAILORED work.
and yes you are right: it will cost you more to make it yourself than buying norman one, this should answer your own question and cut it short.
If you are still unsettled I suggest getting in touch with any of the 2,000 techs and "I know them all" engineers here:
www.gearslutz.com
they surely will be able to help.
sorry but there is no space for arguments like yours on the forum, it's a strict community of decent people.
Mattia.
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besides all that which I whole heartedly endorse, he never said WHEN in Feb he would offer the unit. While it is a short month, (thanks Julius) there are several more weeks and days in February!
Alan
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I'll take your $1500 deposit now and ship by march 15th. normandruce@gmail.com
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I've been talking with Norman, and his PSU looks very promising, high quality and gives you about 50% power savings and lower noise floor!
Also the brand looks good! ;) http://www.atomicinstrument.com/
If everything goes well we might see the PSU here in Europe. Time to reduce that electrical bill?! :D
Cheers,
Artur
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Sorry Norman, after abuse on this forum from members I decided to go ahead and build a supply. I contacted a power supply company I deal with and we are under way. So far the price is good, same as your deposit, and delivery time is less than yours. All from a standing start a week ago. But yes, I have not got it going yet, so there is work to do.
By the way, I am registered on your site, and have sent you my email, but never had any message from you apart from via this forum.
I wish you luck, and I wish me luck. I would have much prefered to buy an established product.
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Established Like endorsed by 4 multiple Grammy Mix engineers? soon to be 5.
If you are having trouble repairing a ssl 661 you will need some major luck
designing a switch mode psu using ssl logic and 265v ground referencing!
What filters are you going to use? Let us know how that turns out for you.
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Design a new PSU for the SSL? I only hope the person that's going to built it has a deep know how of the SSL.
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I have worked on a couple.
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Sorry Norman, after abuse on this forum from members I decided to go ahead and build a supply. I contacted a power supply company I deal with and we are under way. So far the price is good, same as your deposit, and delivery time is less than yours. All from a standing start a week ago. But yes, I have not got it going yet, so there is work to do.
By the way, I am registered on your site, and have sent you my email, but never had any message from you apart from via this forum.
I wish you luck, and I wish me luck. I would have much prefered to buy an established product.
you have not been abused,I think you just have been told to correct your attitude towards other members on this forum
Give respect and expect respect.
otherwise there are other places to have fun in:
www.gearslutz.com
adios
M.
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As a moderator of a forum you show disrespect by slagging off gearslutz. I think it is you that has the bad attitude, Mattia.
What is it you so dislike about gearslutz? Do we need to know?
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First of all, this is Mattia's place. He created it for us. And he's been very fair and kind to you.
If this was my forum, you'd be long gone + blocked if this feature was available.
Many, if not most of the people on this forum have become friends over time. We help each other out with advice, many times even free spares, and we spend a lot of our free time on this forum and refurbishing our consoles.
For me personally, there is no tolerance for the disloyal troll behaviour you are displaying here.
As a moderator of a forum you show disrespect by slagging off gearslutz. I think it is you that has the bad attitude, Mattia.
What is it you so dislike about gearslutz? Do we need to know?
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This forum is about helping each other with their fine SSL desks and keeping them
running strong and efficiently. Gearslutz feels more like a comic book store argument.
Keep us updated on your power supply. N
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Norm, please don't slag comic stores like that!
If you don't know whats wrong with GearSlutz, well, why don't you go play over there, we'll watch from over here. Later.
Norm has been developing a replacement product that couldn't have been designed at the time of original manufacture. It *needs* to be mature and foolproof when released, that is what he has been doing. Not some two bit, well it should work, project.
And he will make no profit, he may get $.02/hour for his development efforts, he better get his hard cost back. But that will probably be about it. We can't complain.
Alan
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Yup we are installing another "beta" unit today. And money is not everything!
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Wow people, come on and get real.
I've just read some posts regarding the potentially new PSU that Xmax (Norman) is designing.
From my viewpoint I have the following points to make (sorry, another long message from me!):
1 Presumably Norman is somewhat of a one man band and not a large company and doesn't have the resources and timescale to design, re-design, prototype, re-design again, order long lead time parts for, deal with purchase orders and cashflow, manufacture, modify, document, market (a website takes some time!), sell and cope with service returns like SSL had (they also struggled with loads more people involved)?
Oh, I forgot to mention replying to emails and, these days, dealing with forums like this and GS, Facebook, Twitter and all that other networking stuff. All of this needs to be done almost at the same time and very quickly of course to satisfy the demand out there in SSL land. I've mentioned some of this stuff before people but, has it sunk in yet?
Therefore, Norman needs as much time as it takes to get it right before selling it and potentially getting any negative feedback if something fails. Maybe, he should not be put under any more pressure or stress until he gets it sorted. Most Pro-Audio companies, like SSL, make the mistake by stating that they can potentially deliver a new product by a certain time but, of course, it always goes horribly wrong as they gradually realise what is at stake and the implications involved.
2 Mattia started this site (and does it for nothing by the way), is a nice guy, no way abusive and does not have a bad attitude. I met him once, made him and Andy H (Sintech) some pasta here and he didn't complain about it even though he is Italian and my pasta was probably rubbish!!! ... I'm being sarcastic of course but I mean what I write!
3 This forum is not like Gearslutz (who get money) where you have all the low level, waste of time comments and petty complaint posts. Reading all that stuff takes up valuable time and more scrolling down the list to find what someone is looking for. Several members on this forum have put posts on GS and mentioned this site. It seems that the GS response was that they almost felt threatened by this website and didn't want to lose members from there coming across to here, a specialist SSL forum as you all know almost gaining one new member a week!
4 I've spoken to Andy H (Sintech) tonight and he made a good point about the legal Health and Safety issues which have to be adhered to (certainly here within Europe). If this new PSU ships worldwide, it would have to abide by all the different Country regulations. If not, someone could face legal action (PSU's could end in a fatal accident if the right protection is not in place). By all means design and make a PSU yourself but, if you sell it abroad at least, there could be legal and possibly financial complications if nothing else.
5 Over the last year there have been some potentially huge developments regarding a new computer system and PSU, none of which have actually been completed or sold as yet (although I may be wrong). These ideas have been the first major ones in almost 30 years and take time to develop. Give these people more time, especially as they are SSL types and not just companies trying to make a fast Buck.
If, or hopefully, when, a new kick butt reliable replacement PSU and computer system becomes available and affordable, all you SSL techs and owners should be happy bunnies. Heck, what do I care ... I don't even own one of those mothers any more (although I did have a 32 frame 6K for a few days before I broke it up and sold the bits).
6 At some point soon, when all this has died down, I recommend deleting some of these unnecessary posts (including this one perhaps) so that we can all just focus on the products being discussed in a rational way without all the negative comments.
7 There is no point 7 really. I'm done now apart from stating that Norman and others have probably wasted time reading this post rather than designing some handy gear for you lot.
Bye for now from Jim Lassen in the UK. PS: Still have loads of new 96 way DL connectors if anyone needs them.
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Atomic is open for business.
http://www.atomicinstrument.com/
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=795517550476254&set=vb.713045235390153&type=2&theater
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Norman. I certainly hope you have finally gotten this together. As I have posted before, I was promised a supply a year ago, and it was going to be included with Norman's labor for commissioning my desk. I put down my deposit. Norman came out with the supply but couldn't leave it due to his new arrangement with Shippen. Months go by, still no supply. In October (6 months after my initial deposit) I get a letter from Shippen saying that he appreciated my deposit but now they had another redesign and if I wanted a new supply it would be another $1100.00 more. I passed on the deal because I wasn't 100% positive on when I was going to receive the supply and I certainly didn't like the price hike. So like I said before. Do your homework, make sure what Atomic is telling you on lead times is accurate and if possible get a provision in your order for what will happen if they don't meet it. My experience with "Atomic" didn't go well and I backed off the product that I really was hoping for at a price that made sense originally.
Norman is a very skilled tech and has really put his heart and soul into this unit. It was working beautifully (although briefly) on my 4056G loaded 48. We saw a noise floor drop and a reduction in the power consumption. Norman is a good guy and loves the vintage SSL market with passion.
Norman. I wish you all the best of the luck and one day we might come full circle on this. I truly hope that this product is a success for you as I know personally how much you devoted to it.
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Joe, I very much appreciated your kind words, The absolute truth in the matter is the
supply was not ready back then. It working was not good enough and Shippen was
wise enough to see we needed to wait and work the bugs out of the design.
Not only is the design ten times more solid than what I was doing back then,
but the S1 has a whole new way of protecting your desk from ANY sort of power
or power supply related issues, Also your very expensive monitors. I
don't Like to think of all the TAD components blown because of black-outs
and failed 661's! We decides it was worth the extra build cost.
Shippen is brutally honest in all regards, lead times included. He is handling sales.
I hope you and your family are well and you are spanking that naughty 4056 of yours. N
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Hello all. Shippen here.
Call me Reid, please... I'm the other owner of Atomic Instrument w/ Norman. www.atomicinstrument.com (http://www.atomicinstrument.com) I'm here to answer questions and concerns regarding the supply, unless they're super-technical.
First- If you have any questions at all, contact me at info@atomicinstrument.com, I will probably get back to you faster that way.
My story- in short, I'm a mixer and an SSL owner. I got tired of rebuilding my supplies- Nashville's power hasn't been the best, and we get a lot of thunderstorms here. I'm also pretty busy most of the time, and wasn't too amped about downtime because the power went on & off and blew out my supplies. Again.
Plus- SSL's are expensive, and it's nerve-wracking to own a studio, as I'm sure you all know.
I met Norman thru Dan Auerbach - Dan's studio is a mile form my house, and I met his engineer Collin and we got to talking and that's how I met Norman (they're all from Detroit). I don't spend time on forums much, for better or for worse, so when Norman said he was working on a replacement SSL supply, I was amped.
And skeptical. I've worked on 4000's and 9000's for years, and when the time came to own one, I wanted the 4048E. I got mine from PAD, they did a great job setting it up, and it's been problem free EXCEPT for the power supplies. One of them doesn't like me and despite the best efforts of the Nashville techs (all great SSL guys) it would throw a rail every 7 months or so and I'd be back in the hole for $750-1000 in rebuild costs and many thousands in lost mix time. A replacement supply? Tell me more. Anything is better than this SL661 dinosaur.
Anything that works and sounds as good or better, that is. So I called Norman, we had a great convo about life and SSL's and how to do business and how things work if you're actually going to sell a product vs. just make a one-off for someone. So we decided to give it a try.
Here's the part where the process gets long... and this is where Joe (perfectsnd) and the actual process of refining a design into a product came into conflict. To be fair- I had no idea it would take this long, or that so much would change- and I’m sorry, Joe, that you got caught in the middle of that.
Norman was confident his design worked, and had talked to a few people about it (presumably on this forum) and even taken some pre-orders. A price was thrown out to a few people as well. Then we started testing. And listening, and torture testing, and redesigning, and refining, and re-testing. Not to mention case design, logos, plate printing, CNC routing, etc. etc. etc.
The bottom line for me is that if I'm going to be involved in something it's going to be 100% right from the start. As an owner, I can't afford to wonder if this new supply is going to shred my desk, or die in 3 months, or whatever. So for me to put my name to this venture, I was going to make damn sure that this supply was the absolute best supply we could possibly make.
Everything in the Atomic is custom and hand-built. The power modules are purchased from a very small company from NOT CHINA and then modified extensively. The (Norman -designed, proprietary) filter circuits are hand-built and potted. The circuit boards that are used are made locally. Other than the modules, everything is made in the USA and most is local to Detroit. Even the cardboard boxes are local, lol. Anyway- I've learned a ton about suppliers, shipping, people saying they're shipping, people not shipping, parts being wrong, etc. Weeks become months and then many months.
At some point Norman & I had to face the fact that the design worked but it wasn't perfect and we had to tell the few guys who had made a deposit that we were going a different direction. Basically- we had upgraded so much stuff that the price was going to have to increase. Now- these deals with Norman were prior to my involvement, prior to us actually forming the company- but I thought that they should be honored as best as possible. So, I reached out to everyone and basically said, "This is on me, but the supply isn't ready yet, an the price has gone up. We're sorry about that, but we're not releasing anything half-ass. So here's the deal... if you want your money back, I totally understand, and you'll have it. If you want to wait, the new supply will cost about $5k, but you can have it for 30% less than that, if you care to wait, and will be first in line" Essentially, this would mean making almost no money on these particular supplies, but a promise is a promise, so I figured this was a win/win for everyone. Some asked for their money back, some didn't. Keep in mind that Atomic had no revenue at this point- the refunds that were made came out of my own pockets. This is how we do business.
This brings us to the present. The supply work and works well, I've been running a variation of it for a year now in my studio. We have tested everything we can think of. Is it bombproof? As much as anything with electricity can be.
The best part- it sounds better. Noticeably better. Wife-and-girlfriend-who-don't-care-about-audio-still-notice better, thank god. Otherwise, I wouldn't be using it on records, I can assure you.
Some FAQs-
Why no A/B samples?
This is my fault. I'm not allowed to post major label stuff. I should have planned for it using something unsigned but I didn't have anything that I liked at the time. At one point I had samples on Soundcloud but they pulled them for copyright. We're working on getting a good representation of an A/B with a mid-size desk. In the meantime, if you want to hear it in action, check out the new Ingrid Michaelson or Dierks Bentley records. I mixed both, all powered by Atomic.
Is this a switching supply, and aren't those evil?
Yes, it's PARTIALLY switching, a hybrid really, and no, it's not evil. I've heard there's a raging debate going on, I'll give you my $0.02. I had a long conversation w/ Massenburg 2 years ago about switching power and he told me "if it's well-designed, it's not a problem." This is well designed... this is what we've been working on all this time. And- I'm working with it. No excess noise- it's quieter actually, at least on an Audio Precision (I have Pultecs on my mix buss, so noise is a whole other conversation). No loss of headroom- ask Ludwig or Jensen or Calbi. Is there noise up above 100kHz? Not that we’re seeing or hearing, it sounds way fucking awesome and is reliable.
Can you turn your desk on & off at will?
Yes. I've done it over 50 times in the last 6 months alone. It still feels weird (after years of being scared to do that) but I've had zero issues. I have noticed that it takes the SSL channels about 20 minutes to come up to speed sonically after it's been off for a night. I also strongly recommend you mute your speakers. ;-)
Does it still need alignment?
Sure, same as ever except that it’s 3 tweaks on the front panel and done. If you’re not scared of math you only need to measure at the center section once. We wish SSL had thought to have the rails reported back to the power supply (like the Neves do) but it takes the usual 20 minutes and 2 guys yelling down to 2 minutes and one guy walking.
What's the return policy?
This is going on the site soon, I regret the oversight. You don't like it, return it in 30 days with the seals intact. Shipping's on you, refund's on us.
Anything else, seriously- email me. We've sold out the first run but will have more in a week or two. I'm still scared that UPS is going to drop a box from altitude and jack something up but as far as the atomic goes I'm confident in it. Like any parent you're always a little nervous but I trust this thing in my studio and that's the highest complement I can give it.
Apologies for the essay. Questions? Get at me at info@atomicinstrument.com.
thanks- Reid
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Hi Reid,
First of all welcome to the SSLMixed family! :D
Thanks so much for such a comprehensive info behind the Atomic PSU. It's good to meet the other half of the Atomic Instruments. You guys are doing an awesome product! :D
I have one question that I think is important for many users here in the forum. Are you guys planing to have your PSU resell in Europe? As you'll be able to see you have lots of SSL owner users eager to put hands in a 661 replacement, with better sonics, better reliability and ultimately, that lets you run at lower costs. :)
Best of success! We're here to support you.
Cheers,
Artur
Cheers,
Artur
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Thanks for the warm welcome Artur! It seems I have a lot of reading to do to catch up on all the cool stuff on this forum... I had no idea about this community!
At this point- this is a custom unit. One off made for each customer, just as if you had a tech make you a passive eq or a tube mic preamp.
We're shipping anywhere on the planet. I'm not aware of any legalities that prevent this- I've bought parts and gear from all over the world and sold & shipped the same.... this supply is no different.
However- WE'RE NEW TO THIS- and if anyone out there has different information, PLEASE email me. But for now- the Atomic rocks, and we see no reason to wait any longer on shipping internationally.
For the record- it is custom built. And you'll have to provide your own power cable.
thanks, Reid
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Hey Reid,
cool to meet you here - I'm friends with both you and Norman on FB.
European Costumers will have to add VAT to your price, which is 19% in Germany and around the same in other EU-countries.
As a business owner, you get that money back after making your tax return. But still it's cash that has to be spent first.
I'm confident this power supply is worth every $$$ - already thinking about how to get rid of my two G-Series Supplies and Changeover for good money.
All the best to you and Norman with your venture!! It's fantastic news for the Vintage SSL community!!
Best,
Marc
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Good to see you here Reid.
I'm keen on the PSU but being perfectly honest... it's not cheap. Almost a $7,000 investment here in Australia by the time tax is added, shipping, conversion and the plasma add on.
If the PSU goes down are these easily serviceable by a tech? Is getting parts an issue? You mention parts coming out of Detroit, it seems there are bespoke parts inside the unit.. that would make a quick turn around for failures somewhat impossible for someone like myself.
As much as the 661 is a dinosaur, I have 3 connected to my board, 1 has failed in the past mid session and my board worked fine on 2 supplies until my tech came out a few days later, was able to fix it with off the shelf components and I was up and running again. During the session I had no idea there was even a problem. That's the beauty of inbuilt redundancy.
I'm not trying to hammer you or be provocative, just I can't have my board going down mid session while session cats are on the clock.
I'm really thrilled that smart people are still developing for the SSL.
Stef.
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Stephan,
What Norman recommended to me was to keep at least one of mine as a backup. That way you could still power up and be working while the Atomic supply was getting fixed.
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Hi Reid,
The advantage of having a reseller in Europe:
- You have a proximity representative of the brand in Europe. Someone that can give you close assistance and support if things go hairy.
- Tthe VAT problem would be solved.
- The reseller will be able to import the goods at much lower rates (normally he imports more stuff at once)
- You don't have to deal with customs taxes, which are added to the VAT.
At this point I think it wouldn't pay off to buy an Atomic PSU, mainly due to customs taxes.
Cheers,
Artur
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We will have them on at least 3 continents by the end of the month, I just installed
another one yesterday. We might be getting a European representative at some
point. One step at a time...
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Hello all. Shippen here.
Hey Reid
I owned SSL consoles for 25 years and my power supplies NEVER blew even with power outages and quick power interuptions.. Are you grounded properely? I mean your building main ground? Have you ever measured your ground with a AEMC ground tester to true mother earth? Are you tied to your water pipe? Does your water main see PVC under the street connection? There is no reason a SSL power supply should be that problematic, unless your machine roon is not cold enough, or your main power is not grounded right, etc.
MicAngelo The Music palace
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I can quote many many people praising a replacement psu, I have seen
several different ssl psu's fail in less than a year in a room that had a 1"
thick ground wire right to the spikes! We all know they fail! read the
whole thread.
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Artur- thanks for the heads up. we're definitely looking into an EU reseller- we've been concentrating on getting this thing off the ground and killer first. Bear with me, I'm new at this, I mix records for a living.
Stef- I hear ya. trust me, I'd love it if this thing were cheaper. good stuff is expensive. I'm also working on some deals with major markets to have a spare around in case something happens to a supply. we're looking at Nashville, NY & LA to start, and would love to park one in Sydney. Who should I talk to? maybe 301?
Mic- we've looked at grounding, thanks for that. Your supplies must have extra karma. :-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Reid,
I wish to see you soon in Europe fully supported! That means the Atomic is a success, which in turn means "ALL GLORY TO SSL LEGACY": :) ;)
Cheers,
Artur
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Hi All,
Some time ago I posted on this forum regarding this supply, and was criticised roundly, and it was suggested that if I didn't want to wait for Norman's supply I should build my own. So I did! Well, actually, some very helpfull guys in the power supply business did the building for me to my spec.
The supply is in and working fine, noise on the console is at -77 dB below 0 dB. Photos attached.
The main firm was an Australian firm Amtex who did the building and supplied through their New Zealand subsidiary Innovative Energy.
Amtex's website is http://www.amtex.com.au
The price was similar to Normans. Anyone in the Australian region might want to investigate this as it might be a cheaper option to Norman's.
Norman contacted me, coincidentally as I was taking delivery of this supply, and we exchanged cordial emails. I certainly still wish him well in his enterprise, and hope he makes some money out of it.
For me it was about making sure my client had a working supply, which he does, and the old one as a spare.
I am very committed to keeping a variety of old gear going, I also service two very old Neves and that has its problems!
So there gentlemen, it is possible to build your own, and in a short time scale. Switchmode supplies have progressed hugely, and are worth looking at.
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This does seem like a option for the more adventurous type. Keep us updated!
One of our first clients just bought 2 more S1's! Now we are building a unit for
literally the biggest name in the business. So yes the word has got out!
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Certainly worth a shot. We regret that our location in the USA makes the supplies more expensive in places such as Australia- we did the best we could, alas. However- we've discovered that the best way to ship the Atomic overseas is with the USPS (the other shippers are charging ridiculous prices) and they have a $2500 value/insurance limit on the package. We've arranged to cover the remainder of the cost- if the shipping damages the supply, we'll replace it- but it also means that the import price would reflect $2500 instead of $4799, I believe.
The only caveat to the above post that I would add is that we have found that there's a difference between a functional supply and a great supply, at least, that was our discovery after many rounds of practical testing and listening. I walk into my mix room every day fully confident that I know exactly what I'm getting sonically, as well as from a power protection standpoint. That is not to say, however, that there's not more than one way to skin a cat- it's just that, as far as Atomic goes, we've skinned this one very, very carefully.
In other news, we're onto round two of the atomic supplies, as well as a few orders from some very well-known mixers and artists that we'll be excited to share as soon as we can.
Again, any questions, please get at me at info@atomicinstrument.com.
thanks, Reid
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Although I think it's a good idea to have replacement parts available for SSL consoles, I can't justify spending $4,800 for a power supply given that the price of these consoles are not going to increase in value, if anything they will decrease.
I was really looking forward to getting one of your psu's but the price is too high for me.
Clients are more and more mixing in the box and in reality the original power supply is serviceable. If we were talking about the automation computer/total recall, it would make sense to invest since they are built based on an old technology and very difficult to repair. I am not a big fan of switching-mode power supplies either and would prefer linear, but it's just me.
Nevertheless I wish you guys all the luck and if at some point the price comes down I will definitely entertain the idea of "switching" the psu on my SSL.
Best of luck!!
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As a sidenote, I think we've seen the lowest prices for the E/G-Series already. Prices hold steady, especially for well maintained complete consoles. Keep in mind that some places buy them to rack the channels, and a whole lot of consoles have already disappeared that way.
Although I think it's a good idea to have replacement parts available for SSL consoles, I can't justify spending $4,800 for a power supply given that the price of these consoles are not going to increase in value, if anything they will decrease.
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nycsudio1... man, I hear ya.
Here's all I can say, as an SSL owner- I don't sweat my power supplies anymore. I don't get nervous when Nashville gets thunderstorms at night. I have turned my whole desk off & on over 100 times now and had zero issues- I'm turning it off overnight now. Takes about 10 minutes to warm up.
And it sounds better. 'Nuff said on that. I'm sure there's lots of stuff on the internet about switching supplies, pro & con... I'm willfully ignorant when it comes to the arguments- but I believe my ears. 54 Sound liked their first Atomic so much they ordered them for all of their SSL's a month later, and they haven't had time to realize any power savings- the sound makes a difference.
Finally- we made a conscious decision to make everything in America, local to Detroit. Yup, we're all used to cheap stuff from China, but we couldn't get the quality that we needed. We're always keeping in mind that when the SSL's were new, they were extremely expensive stuff. True, the used value has fallen (although, like Marc said, it's on the upswing again) but there's still a lot of guys who swear by it, guys named etc etc blah blah blah. Let's not re-start that thread.
Thanks for the good vibes though. If we get any sorts of price breaks we'll definitely pass them on- we're both music makers first and business guys second, we just wanted the Atomic to kick as much ass as possible.
-Reid
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Hi all
It's interesting to read that SSL prices are holding steady after falling a lot over the last decade or so. Around 1981, I remember that a new SSL power supply (661) was about GB£5,000 from SSL. A console side profile and cast and machined leg were £500 each. There were not many big CNC machines back then but JD Krouse, who made all the console frames and other metalwork had one and they were based locally to SSL. I think they don't exist anymore.
Also, a 611E mono channel, which SSL made most of their income from, was about £1,200 and a stereo version, nearly £2k. I think a 681 keyboard was about £800.
A little bit more history for you! How prices have changed over the last 30 years!
Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
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I have seen the prices go up on 4K's! It seems people tried different things but
just went back to the 4K's, And we are not forcing people to buy the Atomic Instrument
supply. To me the desk is the most important part of a studio, I have seen
a single Neve channel sell for $4800! In other words a studio can run without
a Neve channel, It really can't run without the desk, downtime is expensive!
Plus with energy saved the unit should pay itself off relatively quickly. Thanks
for the support so far! N
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Prices are not going up on SSL consoles. Just because someone asks a higher price or even if one buyer pays a higher price for a console it doesn't mean that prices are going up.
I run a commercial studio and get zero love or request for the use of the SSL. I get requests for melodyne and autotune on a daily basis but not for the SSL or even the Neve I have in the B room.
I turn off my consoles every day as I have been doing for many years and never had an issue either with the console or psu.
Electric bill is the least of my concerns as I see little to no variation when I use the console here in my building.
There's a company in California called GRS Pro Audio that builds power supply for SSL or any other console for $1,500
At one point they were selling their units on Ebay for $995.00
Nevertheless I give you credit for developing a replacement PSU for these consoles, but a psu is not the reason why these boards will go up in value if it ever happens.
An automation and total recall computer replacement on the other hand would be a whole different game.
When you guys started to advertise here and offering them for $2,500 or I believe $2,200 at one point I was actually seriously considering buying one and keeping the original as a back up but once the price went up to $4,800 it just became impossible for me to even consider.
Now I am only sharing my thoughts so you can have some sort of feedback as I am sure that there are many that share the same sentiments that I do but won't say anything.
I wish you guys all the best with your business and your psu's.
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Would love to hear some feedback from owners/users of the S1 other than the owners of the company.
A lot of hype here and on the website.
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I'm not a tech, and not an owner of the S1. It all looks done 100% correctly, including the website and marketing.
As someone who is servicing his own console, I'd love to know more about the technical details of both the SSL PSUs and the S1. PSUs are still a big mystery for many on the forum, and so was the SSL Mix Computer, but we're about to get that sorted out at the moment.
Would love to hear some feedback from owners/users of the S1 other than the owners of the company.
A lot of hype here and on the website.
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Hi guys,
I've been up on the market for the last 2 years for an SSL console. I've finally bought the one I wanted after a long long search and I've been deeply involved with the SSL Market in the process. From my personal experience what I can tell you is that since around the last year the SSL consoles, primarily 4000/6000 and 8000 are going crazy up.
The problem as I see it is that sellers know the value and the demand for theses consoles and their asking bid is getting up. On other-way around, brokers and techs that make a living off of refurbishing/reselling theses consoles are starting to have a hard time because they can't sell it much higher than they already did. So margins are getting squeezed. But also the market for these consoles is expanding and the offer is lower than the demand.
The demand as been going up because prices have reached a point where it pays of to buy these beautiful consoles than the recent ones. These have been going out of major studios into smaller/production studios/homestudios. Also the hype on mordern console design is getting cooler... it's not all advantages, the sound and functionality/flexibility is a big tradeoff as I see it.
That's why you've seen a huge flow of Asian consoles into the European/US market. It's much cheaper to get them from there than from the Occident, where selling values are getting higher.
The same is not happening with more recent consoles, such as the 9000's. I think this might have to do with the higher electricity requirements and also expensive and harder/complex maintenance. Who's on market for these consoles usually does his homework and knows all the burdens that come with it.
Regarding a Automation/Total Recall computer replacement, stay sharp to the SSLMixed Computer project. We'll soon show a working prototype that we've been working for the last couple of months. Actually I am very thrilled with this! ;)
Cheers,
Artur
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"CLEANER BASS, CLEANER MIDS, THE BASS SOUNDS WAY BETTER, MORE EXTENDED AND EVEN."
- STEVE KING
HTTP://TAPEOP.COM/ARTICLES/84/STEVE-KING/
“SOUNDS KILLER! MORE EXTENSION. MID CHARACTER AND DEFINITION IS WAY BETTER. MORE LOW END. BETTER TRANSIENT RESPONSE. AT THE MOMENT I HAVE NOTHING BUT GREAT THINGS TO SAY.”
- JOEL HAMILTON
HTTP://TAPEOP.COM/INTERVIEWS/85/JOEL-HAMILTON-BONUS/
“ANYONE WITH EARS WILL HEAR THE DIFFERENCE- IT SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER- CAN I HAVE THIS BACK WHEN I PRINT THE FINAL MIXES ON THE MICHAEL MCDONALD ALBUM?”
- SHANNON FORREST
HTTP://WWW.INNOVATIVEPERCUSSION.COM/ARTISTS/SHANNON_FORREST
Many, many more to come. ;)
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Hey Xmax, none of those links work. Are these real quotes?
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Here's what they are saying about our new power supply.
'More bass, more middle, more tops! Everything sounds way smoother, especially after a couple of beers!'
;D
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You are correct the links are not working for some reason? If you go to: http://www.atomicinstrument.com/about/, They are working just fine. ;)
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^ Some beta testers.
Like to hear from real customers.
worth it?
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its fairly obvious why the links won't work, too many http:// 's!!
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Steve King works at 54 sound, 54 sound was one of our first customers, after 30 days
they bought 2 more S1's, We are in the process getting Joel and Shannon S1's.
Bob Clearmountain is now the owner of a S2, Give him a call. Please, this forum
is only about helping each other with our SSL's, If you have nothing better to do
than post negative comments, please head over to gearslutz, we are too busy! N
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You are aware that its only been available for something like 1-2 months in final form??
How many "users" do you think there are at this time?
if you are serious about wanting to purchase this may I suggest you read this:
Return Policy: If you are not satisfied with our product, returns may be made within 30 days of purchase. Buyer pays shipping and handlng. Warranty sticker must still be intact.
Then you can write up your response to it and we'll have an outside evaluation.
Alan
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thanks for the voice of reason, Alan. nice to see you here, btw. my WB-modded BL40 is still going strong!
-reid
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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that's WBA please!!
BL-40, one of the most unknown devices out there. Did I make yours with the opto side chain level adjustable? So it becomes a "true" LA3A when in "bypass"? If not, talk to me about getting that changed. Its been a while.
Alan
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WBA!!!! lol sorry.
no, it doesn't have that mod. it sounds so good, though, that i'd hate to change anything. maybe if it ever dies, i'll send it back for an upgrade.
hope you're well in all other things, Alan.
-Reid
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"All 3 of us in the room could tell right away, wider soundstage and deeper more extended bass.
We will be ordering a second unit ASAP for our other room." Rick Barnes, Rax Traxs, Chicago.
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You're killing me Norman!! :P
PS: Somebody wants to buy 2x original G-Series Power Supplies + Changeover Units in great condition, all regulators recapped?
"All 3 of us in the room could tell right away, wider soundstage and deeper more extended bass.
We will be ordering a second unit ASAP for our other room." Rick Barnes, Rax Traxs, Chicago.
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this is really about the "ugly little secret" that power supplies and distribution can make a huge difference in audio performance in equipment.
I don't care what technology is used, if the end product has lower noise, lower impedance across wider bandwidth (yes, power supplies have bandwidth) and better regulation, then, yes, it will sound better!
Today's resources can be used to build power supplies that are a superior product than that which has come before. It appears that Norm has successfully done that and we can reap the benefits. I hope to persuade one of my clients with SSL's to convert.
Alan
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this is really about the "ugly little secret" that power supplies and distribution can make a huge difference in audio performance in equipment.
I don't care what technology is used, if the end product has lower noise, lower impedance across wider bandwidth (yes, power supplies have bandwidth) and better regulation, then, yes, it will sound better!
Today's resources can be used to build power supplies that are a superior product than that which has come before. It appears that Norm has successfully done that and we can reap the benefits. I hope to persuade one of my clients with SSL's to convert.
Alan
Not that simple.. Sometimes a original power supply will be part of the personality of the gear its driving.. changing the supply might make the system cleaner, but that might not be favorable
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Hello all-
happy to report that Bob Clearmountain just took delivery of his Atomic S2 a few days ago, and here's what he sent us-
"Been running it and mixing all afternoon... hard to tell without a proper A/B test, but it certainly sounds really good, if not better"
Yes, we're geeking the fuck out.
I also just got video from Joel Hamilton at Studio G in Brooklyn... we'll be posting this soon- a real-time A/B test in his mix room-
"It just seems to have more- at the bottom.. and the transient response... it's wider too- i don't know why. Without a doubt- there's just more extension at both ends"
we'll be updating the Facebook page as we get more feedback from users, as well as some short videos explaining the how & why. The website will also soon have a chart of power savings across the different countries.
as always- any questions, please email me at info@atomicinstrument.com
https://www.facebook.com/atomicinstrument
thanks!
-Reid
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Bob just added-
"It all sounds great, but I was really hoping it would make the vocals more in tune and the lyrics less stupid, but no luck there. Maybe the Mark II version?
-Clearmountain"
too funny not to share.
-Reid
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Hi Reid,
Congratulations! This is a great asset for the credibility of the Atomic! If one wasn't yet a believer, then now with Bob's testimony there's really no doubt of the great work you guys have done.
By the way, any news when the Atomic will be available for Europe?
Cheers,
Artur
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Thanks Artur!
there's several Atomics running in Europe right now, actually.
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But do you have already a dealer in Europe or at this stage you're just importing it?
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Artur- no dealer yet. We're working on that, but since we're such a small company, at this point it's easier and faster to import them.
Please know that all of these supplies are built & tested by hand. Nothing is mass-produced. Filters are tuned for specific desk sizes also.
We've worked very hard on shipping costs and gotten them down to very reasonable amounts- usually about $225USD or less for most of the EU.
-=Reid
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I wonder if you guys ever thought of developing one power supply that would be able to power up both the console and the automation computer. I am not sure if it's doable. Thanks.
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not a good idea.
digital crap is not wanted in an analogue world!
Much easier to keep control noises isolated from sensitive areas of the board by being TOTALLY isolated.
Thats not to say a new psu wouldn't be interesting, but really a new COMPUTER would be more interesting.
Cheers
Alan
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You definitely have a point. A new computer would be a much better idea.
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A new computer would be sweet ... oh, I forgot. I have a new computer. :-)
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https://www.facebook.com/atomicinstrument/photos/a.783159995045343.1073741828.713045235390153/912147745479900/?type=1&theater