6048e

[madmuso]

Hi mate,

I'm using The Konnektor here, it works perfectly and I highly recommend it.

Stef.

awesome,  just what I needed to hear, I will inform the console owner.

thanks,

[madmuso]

Hey all,

hows things? hope everyone is doing good. Its been a while since I last visited, last few months have been crazy busy.

The studio is coming along and we should be ready to roll the console and outboard in there at the end of this month, if all goes to plan.

I have been thinking about headphone mix distribution in relation to the 6000e and have a few questions.

The complex has a control room, large live room studio, and a smaller room studio. From what I understand, the 6000e can only give you 3 separate stereo headphone mix's (cue LR, aux 1LR and aux 2LR). Does this mean that if you were recording a live 6 piece band that 2 of the performers would be receiving one of the 3 mixes via the headphone amp? (assuming we have a headphone amp capable of receiving 3 stereo inputs which can be assigned to any of its 6 headphone channels).

I would love to hear if there are any work arounds or handy tricks in relation to headphone mixes during tracking with this console.

Ideally we would like to create an environment where the artist has their own heaphone mix controller so they can adjust to their liking but im not sure this console really caters for that, or am I wrong? Im used to creating headphone mixes in software land so setting up headphone mixes at the start of a tracking session using the consoles aux's doesnt really bother me either. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

thanks guys,

[StefanNowak]

Hi,

I have recently put in a Behringer P16 system, it works great and definitely worth a try. Try to ignore it's Behringer and try it.

With the console, I use the multitrack group matrix to get the tracks to 1-16 of the cue system. (Press INPUT and OUTPUT and use the short fader to send to the group)

Worth noting... I am 98% of the time running outboard pres and running the console in "MIX" mode. This might a bit fiddly if in RECORD mode but with some thought it will still work.

Stef.

[madmuso]

Hi,

I have recently put in a Behringer P16 system, it works great and definitely worth a try. Try to ignore it's Behringer and try it.

With the console, I use the multitrack group matrix to get the tracks to 1-16 of the cue system. (Press INPUT and OUTPUT and use the short fader to send to the group)

Worth noting... I am 98% of the time running outboard pres and running the console in "MIX" mode. This might a bit fiddly if in RECORD mode but with some thought it will still work.

Stef.

Thanks for the reply Stef. For tracking, We will be using the console in "rec + VCA to fader" mode and we will be using outboard pres almost all of the time, we will also be going "direct" from the small fader to our converters (into DAW). So since we are using the small fader as our "to tape/DAW" level control this means we cant use it as a send to a headphone system yeah?

So in your situation you are patching whichever channels you want from the patchbays Group outputs to the P16's inputs which I assume you've routed into your patchbay?

Stef, can you elaborate on your tracking setup/method. Im curious to know how you are sending to tape/daw and where the "from tape" monitor signal is coming back on the console, will help me see the overall picture, thanks heaps!

[sintech]

I normally track in Split Mode: "Mix" + "Record" + "VCA to Monitor" this gives the best of both worlds, especially on a large console.

I would set the P16 on Groups 17-32, and pull my off tape/tools mix and feed the P16 from this. (although just normally use a more basic headphone arrangement)

Ch17-32 in "Mix" bring back cross-patched multitrack returns (Tools/Multi 1-16), and feed the headphones, and the Large faders would be my Control Room mix

All outboard mic pre's are patched to the "Insert Returns" on CH1-16 in "Record+VCA" (Hit Ready Group or Tape to go from "mix" mode into this) then routed to tape via "Direct" tapping into Shaping EQ and a little Catching peaks on the way, if needed, Via small faders

Slick'n old skool SSL :-)

 

[madmuso]

I normally track in Split Mode: "Mix" + "Record" + "VCA to Monitor" this gives the best of both worlds, especially on a large console.

I would set the P16 on Groups 17-32, and pull my off tape/tools mix and feed the P16 from this. (although just normally use a more basic headphone arrangement)

Ch17-32 in "Mix" bring back cross-patched multitrack returns (Tools/Multi 1-16), and feed the headphones, and the Large faders would be my Control Room mix

All outboard mic pre's are patched to the "Insert Returns" on CH1-16 in "Record+VCA" (Hit Ready Group or Tape to go from "mix" mode into this) then routed to tape via "Direct" tapping into Shaping EQ and a little Catching peaks on the way, if needed, Via small faders

Slick'n old skool SSL :-)

thanks for the tips, thats a cool setup too. Question though, how do you use the consoles talkback features/buttons to communicate with the artist, the consoles talkback mic is routed only to "ST cue, aux 1 and aux 2" sockets on the patchbay isnt it?

[sintech]

thanks for the tips, thats a cool setup too. Question though, how do you use the consoles talkback features/buttons to communicate with the artist, the consoles talkback mic is routed only to "ST cue, aux 1 and aux 2" sockets on the patchbay isnt it?

Hi, the Omni button talks to the matrix also, as well at all cues.

[madmuso]

thanks for the tips, thats a cool setup too. Question though, how do you use the consoles talkback features/buttons to communicate with the artist, the consoles talkback mic is routed only to "ST cue, aux 1 and aux 2" sockets on the patchbay isnt it?

Hi, the Omni button talks to the matrix also, as well at all cues.

ah ha! excellent! That solves that then!

I didnt realize until today that the p16 system isnt just the monitor unit on its own but you also need the p16I rack unit to make it all happen with the console, so the owner is going to purchase all that this week sometime. yay!

Ive been thinking about your setup, is there any reason why your pre's are patched into the insert returns? Will this setup still work if they were patched into the line ins?

Also, where are you patching your 1-16 mutlitrack returns to? Into the line ins of ch 17-32? If so I assume that you then patch from group outputs 17-32 to your p16's inputs (on a user patchbay).

So with this setup, on a 48 channel console, you can record 32 mono sources and have them coming back to 16 channels. Sounds good!

[StefanNowak]

My signal chain usually (when recording)

Mic -> Mic Pre -> 192 IN -> 192 OUT into console in MIX mode.

I then decide (depending on the session) what goes to what group for the CUE.

With the cue it would typically go GRP 17 -> CUE input 1, GRP 18 -> CUE input 2, etc etc.

Stef.

[madmuso]

My signal chain usually (when recording)

Mic -> Mic Pre -> 192 IN -> 192 OUT into console in MIX mode.

I then decide (depending on the session) what goes to what group for the CUE.

With the cue it would typically go GRP 17 -> CUE input 1, GRP 18 -> CUE input 2, etc etc.

Stef.

Ah ok, so you arent using the console for any part of the "front end" side of things, you are bypassing the console and going straight into your converters and using the console strictly for monitoring and mixing. cool. My small setup at home is like this, but no console involved.

Im thinking that we may set things up similar to sintech's setup, this way we can run the console in "mix + rec" so we can then hit "ready group or tape" to activate the desired channels into "rec" mode. I personally like going direct from outboard pre's to converters bypassing any consoles but the owner of the console wanted everything patched into the consoles patchbay which is fair enough, its his gear!

Stef, do you have all of your outboards ins and outs hooked up to "separate/user" patchbays so you can easily create the signal chain you like before going to converters? Or do you actually get behind the gear/rack and patch it all in from there? The latter is how my small home setup is but in the future im going to have all the ins and outs available on patchbays, for me it becomes a pain in the ass to have to get behind it all the time for different signal chains. I dont have a lot of outboard at home but its still a pain!

thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it, speak soon and keep well,

[StefanNowak]

Howdy.

I have had a patchbay added in the console for all of my outboard so I come from the mic patch (very top) to the outboard pres.

I will probably use a couple of the SSL pres for a date in February where we're cutting live rhythm tracks for an album.

Stef.

[madmuso]

cool, sounds like fun!

Ive been thinking, there's really nothing stopping us from bypassing the console's channel strips during tracking, we can just patch from the mic lines (top row) to the outboards ins (on our user patchbay) then from the outboards outs (user patchbay) to the converters inputs which come are on another patchbay, then just do the monitoring thing in mix mode with the groups sending to the P16.

Obviously the beauty in using the channels is being able to take advantage of the roll offs, phase switches, eq and dynmanics if you really need it on the way in. I guess who ever is producing/engineering at the time can work whichever way they want.

 

[sintech]

thanks for the tips, thats a cool setup too. Question though, how do you use the consoles talkback features/buttons to communicate with the artist, the consoles talkback mic is routed only to "ST cue, aux 1 and aux 2" sockets on the patchbay isnt it?

Hi, the Omni button talks to the matrix also, as well at all cues.

ah ha! excellent! That solves that then!

I didnt realize until today that the p16 system isnt just the monitor unit on its own but you also need the p16I rack unit to make it all happen with the console, so the owner is going to purchase all that this week sometime. yay!

Ive been thinking about your setup, is there any reason why your pre's are patched into the insert returns? Will this setup still work if they were patched into the line ins?

Also, where are you patching your 1-16 mutlitrack returns to? Into the line ins of ch 17-32? If so I assume that you then patch from group outputs 17-32 to your p16's inputs (on a user patchbay).

So with this setup, on a 48 channel console, you can record 32 mono sources and have them coming back to 16 channels. Sounds good!

The reason for patching an outboard Mic Pre to in insert returns, is not to go through the line amp/longer path than needed, so really just utilising the consoles routing, filters an the like. This is the way I saw people doing it in large studios in the 90's.

[jimlfixit]

Hi Dudes. Yes, you can bypass the SSL mic amp input section by plugging your favourite mic pre into the SSL insert as Sintech mentioned. Heck, why plug it into the SSL input as well if you think you have a better front end instead?

So, plug your mic into your 19" gear (which could appear on the patch) and cross plug the line level output into the SSL insert return. This is a shorter and cleaner feed into the console. Route the signal, use the cues accordingly and take it out to the DAW convertors so you just use the SSL eq, if required, and whatever else you need. I hope I've got this right ... I'm stating this from a distant memory some 15 years or so ago!.

Also, did you know that the mic sources (row A) on the SSL patchbay are fully normalled to the mic inputs (the only patchbay that is wired like this on the console)? This handy bit of wiring means you can also use the mic sources row as a tieline back to the studio for possible cues. If you plug a jack from a cue feed into row A, it breaks the feed into the SSL mic input (row B) below so you can send your signal to the studio wall panel for some sort of cue mix. Not many people know that but, you do now!

Hope this helps from Jim Lassen www.profcon.co.uk and now on FACEBOOK

[madmuso]

Happy new years guys! Once again you have provided handy info and tips! 

We finally rolled the console and outboard into the studio today, over the next few weeks we will be busy hooking everything up, as well as soldering tie lines, etc.

I have a question regarding the "listen back" mic sockets on the patchbay. I understand that the listen back mics are the microphones you setup in the recording space/studio rooms so that the artist can talk to you. If I plug a microphone into channel 20 of my stage box, do i then simply patch mic line 20 into the "listen mic 1" socket? I noticed there are two listen mic sockets, what would happen if you had 4 separate rooms and needed to talk to all the artists, would you simply plug a mic into the stage box and bring it up on a channel on the desk and mute/solo as needed?

I have also been thinking about mult sockets on a patchbay, is there any difference between a patchbay that has been wired to mult a signal and a simple "y" patchbay cable that would duplicate a signal? just curious.

thanks, hope everyone is well and making plenty of music!