I want to build a new studio in 2019. Is 4040G+ going to be a good idea?

[jacko]

Hello all! What a great community you have here!

I'm thinking of building a tracking and mixing facility. I love the SSL workflow and I see that people in recent years were selling their 4040 or 4048 for around 25k EUR. Am I being reasonable thinking that I could get a usable, recently refurbished console for around 30k EUR? I would be more than happy with 40 channels. I could even start with 32 channels in a 40 channel frame, just to get fully working console for the money I want to spend and buy additional 8 modules in future, when the studio is up and running. I would be glad to hear your SSL stories - either here or via private message. Thanks!

[CML Audio]

Hello Jacko,

Welcome!

One of people you could talk to about sourcing a console is Michael at AES Pro Audio:

http://www.aesproaudio.com/ssl/full-consoles/#ssl

Gareth.

[sintech]

Had two SSL’s in the past, now on to my third :-) I’d say it’s been a huge roller coaster emotionally, and financially.
Inbetween these three, tried a BBC Audix, an EMI and a Trident.. but always coming back to the 4k

SSL number 1: 4040E E computer TR:



Had a Studio in the 90’s, a very awesome sounding control room and live room combo, with booths.. at this point computers were no threat, we had a Protools Rig 32 channels with 24 I/O at a price tag of 14k (The average house cost about 80k).. and the SSL was about 47k.

This might seem a lot.. but we were booked everyday, had stuff in UK charts, and a Mercury Music Prize under our belt. The tide really changed on us.. like everyone else riding on the back of Record company budgets.

SSL Number 2: 4040E Ext Patch G+ computer No TR



Co-owned this with a Famous (at the time) Scottish band, the band split and it was cut down and sold. 8 channels stayed with me, and this formed the start of Console 3

SSL Number 3 4032 E/G/G+ G+ Computer TR



Number 3 was a reaction to the last two..

Decided not to co-own it, also had to be easily moved, and I can break this and move it in one day on my own.. in my car! (about 6 trips)

The 8 really nice modules from number two, and thanks to Jim L, selling me all the Stored G+ modules he got direct from SSL in the late 90’s I have a superb sounding and mechanically sound.

I mainly do project work now, and it’s not a commercial venture, so the desk doesn’t need to pay it’s way.

[xmax]

A lot of the top guys still use the 4K for a reason.

[Artur D'Assumpção]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. 2019 is still very ahead, and market fluctuation is something you have to consider. A lot can change!

Current trend is for these console to get higher in price, since demand is highly increasing in the last couple years and offer is shorting out. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that these SSL consoles are taking the same path as Neve consoles. Price will go up steadily, specially for well maintained consoles.

I don't think your valuation is correct for the current market for refurbished consoles. For a 40-channel console I would aim between 38-40k€ for a complete refurbished console by an expert tech (basically you're getting a working console that will last years to come)- including computer and total recall. Specially if we're talking of G and G+ consoles which have a premium attached. This does not include cabling, and commissioning.

Of course this depends greatly of the opportunity. I am not saying you can't find a working/non-working/stored console for much less, but then you need to consider the refurbishing cost, specially if you're doing it yourself. If you find such opportunity it is important you get someone that knows SSL's inside out to inspect the console beforehand, specially if it's an E console. If you're diving yourself into refurbishing you may end up with a nightmare and box of surprises in your hands, and you can spend 1 year just to work it out. Also parts are not becoming any cheaper, so if you need replacements you will pay premium.

These are just some considerations. I personally I prefer to pay a bit more and have a tech do the refurbish and make sure you have a good working condition console. Even then, you'll have problems... since these consoles will fail on you, they did when they were new and older are no exception! But if you don't maintain them at all, then you have yourself a 40k€ brick sooner or later.

I hope that helps,

Cheers,

Artur

[jacko]

Thanks!

I admit that I would like to learn as much as possible about regular maintenance and I understand that this is something that requires patience. I think 4040 G+ will fit right in my world. I don't know if I will go for it, but the possibility is quite high. I looked at many threads in this forum and I get the impression that I would be able to learn how to fix some things on a G+. It gives me more confidence than, for example, an AWS.

I hope we will see more G+ consoles from late 90's soon on the market.

[marcmozart]

Who???

 

Never mind - just joking 

A lot of the top guys still use the 4K for a reason.

[xmax]

The nice thing about the 4K's they don't use any surface mount parts and you can swap ch amp, eq,
dynamics, group amp etc, cards to trouble shoot down to the bad card and always send it to somebody
if you can't figure out the problem with that card. You can also find spare cards for under $100.
I personally recommend a non ultimation G with VU meters.   

[jacko]

Perhaps it will be a better idea to aim at 4032. This way I will get a better chance to grab something usable in the 30k area. If that doesn't work out, my plan B is an AWS.
@Sintech, your 4032 looks great.
Resident Studios in London have a nice one too: http://www.residentstudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Studio-A_1200x682.jpg

[Artur D'Assumpção]

Hi,

One thing you will eventually find in your research is that the AWS....sucks! And if you want a modern one, you'll most probably will be paying as much or more than a used 4000. In the end, even with all the maintenance overhead, the 4000 is miles away a better deal.

Remember these consoles are also getting a new breath of life with new PSU and Computer options out there.

I've gone through that process and that was my conclusion.

PS: the AWS/Duality you don't fix things... you replace things.

Cheers,

Artur

[jacko]

Hi,

One thing you will eventually find in your research is that the AWS....sucks! And if you want a modern one, you'll most probably will be paying as much or more than a used 4000. In the end, even with all the maintenance overhead, the 4000 is miles away a better deal.

Remember these consoles are also getting a new breath of life with new PSU and Computer options out there.

I quite liked AWS when I had a chance to work with it, but I want 4000 much more of course. To save some cost for start I could get a 4032G+ without a computer and buy one later, am I correct?

[CML Audio]

Hi Jacko,

To give you further detail on the Resident Studios SSL console, it is a 6000 Series. The console was supplied by AES Pro Audio; my colleagues and I did the tech work on it, including design and manufacture of the mix panel for handling the A, B & C buses that feature on the SSL 6000.

Take a look at CML Audio on Facebook for more photos of the console's journey through our workshop.


With reference to getting a console without computer and then adding the computer later, ensure that you make this clear to the console supplier at the time of ordering. If you are getting a refurbished console that has been downsized from a larger desk, the automation cabling and recall cards may be removed as part of the downsizing.


Cheers,

Gareth.

[sintech]

For 30k Euro, you won't get a 32ch 4k G+ from a retailer like AES/Recycled and the like.

The price point is a no man's land, and the best chance is a studio that's closing.. and you have cash that day/ or maybe eBay.

Long gone are the broadcast auctions (BBC, Danish Radio) that pumped used 4k's onto the market in plenty.

As Arthur pointed out, the AWS (older) has just 24 channels, a pair of dynamics, and no real expansion from that.

[Artur D'Assumpção]

Hi,

Regarding not buying the computer, that's indeed an option. I have offered some budgets of smaller consoles (32 channels) without the computer option, specially with new and modern options appearing  on the market. I would recommend though buying the Total Recall cards. These are necessary since to date there's still no replacement and you'll need them to work with the computer to be able to total recall the console. With this said, I suspect that until 2019 the community as build some alternative drop-in replacement TR cards. It's on the checklist for sure...

One has to pay enough attention to budget. With an SSL 4000, it is very easy to fail budget by not giving the necessary importance to secondary things than may ruin your entire project. Some of them are:
 
- amount of necessary cabling (DL connectors are not cheap)
- extra room (machine)
- decent AC for machine room and mixing room
- electricity
- enough outboard
- enough TT cables (this are expensive, even if you do them yourself)
- all electronic material necessary to maintain the console yourself...

These are a big deal, and can cost you a big chunk of your budget. Specially if you want your console running on a daily basis!

If you're very tight on budget, I wouldn't go for such solution as much as I desired it. I might go instead for an ITB + control surface + good outboard selection.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Artur

[jacko]

In my budget I'm planning to spend around 70k EUR on equipment, but a lot of it will be eaten by cabling and (second hand) mics. I already have PT rig, D-Command, some outboard, monitors, etc. and the good thing is that I mix full time with my current equipment. I can make a slow transition to using the SSL and spend a year on testing, fixing and replacing parts. I need a challenge and this will be challenging. This forum has already helped me understand some bits about the 4000 and I have a feeling you will be even more helpful when I buy the console.

The consoles are not becoming any younger and I'm hoping the prices won't go up.