6048e

[jimlfixit]

You can have mults on a patchbay. This may be a German expression but I (and SSL) call them parallels. These are 3 or 4 jacks linked together so that a signal can be plugged into one jack and you can then feed 2 or more inputs from there. It is normally fine with line level signals but, with mics, it may not be a great idea as there will be impedance issues if nothing else. Similarly, for stage use, some people split the stage mic to feed both the Front of House and the on stage monitor mixes without using proper splitter units like an XTA device. Not a good idea really.

You can cross plug your stage box mic sources into the SSL listen mic inputs but, as you say, there are only two available. If you have 4 rooms, you may need some form of distribution box or splitter so that you can press a button to access any one or two of the listen mics at any one time.

If my memory serves me correctly (from about 30 years ago since I last operated an SSL), the listen mics are different in so much that they allow musicians to talk back to the control room but, when the console is in record mode, they automatically shut off to avoid feedback. If you just bought a mic source into a channel input, you would hear the musicians but the mic would not automatically shut off when you then went back into record mode. You would have to remember to mute it as well otherwise, if left on, it could act as an ambience mic and also be recorded to tape plus could be accidentally routed to cues and groups.

In summary (unless I am wrong here), use mults (parallels) for sending a line level signal to various places or use a Y bantam patchcord but avoid passively sending mics to two or more sources by the same method. That is one of the main reasons that rows A and B are fully normalled as opposed to half normalled like all the line level signals are on the console. This means that, if you patchcord mic source 1 into somewhere else, you break the feed from mic source 1 to mic input 1 as they are fully normalled. The console was designed so that you could not feed any mic sources into more than one input due to this different normalling method.

On a slightly different subject, the Omni button on the 651 or 621 (Producers Panel) is coloured red simply because, by pressing it and activating the built in mic nearby, it then sends the signal, via the mic, to all the cues (and maybe other places). This could mean that someone in the control room says "that was a bad take" and it may end up recorded on tape (or ProTools these days).

SSL designed all these functions nearly 40 years ago for a good reason. It is for us to realise and understand that today! They were not the world leader for around 15 years for no reason!

I hope I am accurate with my answer and it helps. I'm not a tech, just a wiring guy and a drummer so, excuse me if I got it wrong!

Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK. Select the photos, click the albums and view a photo for more information.

[madmuso]

cool, thanks Jim. we have plenty of mic pres so if the listen mic sockets are expecting line level I can just cross patch into a pre, come out of the pre into the listen mic socket, no big deal. I think I need to investigate if there is a switcher or even a small rack mixer that I can plug 3 or 4 mics into, then patch the main out of the mixer to the listen mic 1 input socket, this way I can just mute whatever I dont want to hear on the little mixer/switcher,etc.

Speaking of switchers, we will need one for all our monitors, there will be 4, possibly 5 sets of monitors (2 or 3 pairs of nearfield with sub and 2 sets of mains). I was thinking to plug a switcher into the "mon LS" socket on the patchbay then we can just switch speakers from the switcher. Anyone using anything like this that they can recommend?

Actually, while we are talking about the mon LS socket, I recently read in the manual that the listen back mics appear on the "mini LS" socket, does this mean you always have to have a set of monitors hooked up to the mini LS socket to hear those mics? why wouldnt the listen back mics be routed to both the "mon LS" and "mini LS" sockets? or am I misunderstanding the manual?

[jimlfixit]

The SSL Listen mic inputs are mic level, not line level I believe so you can't just use a small mixer to accept Listen Mic sources from a studio area and send them to the two available inputs on the console as they would be line level from the mixer. Perhaps you could have some switcher box to allocate the studio Listen Mics and switch them to the console.

Most people use LS switcher boxes and the older consoles at least had a relay output which, when the Alt button is pressed on the 651, switches between 2 sets of mini speakers. This would have to be wired to an external box along with the mini feeds. These two Alt contacts would be wired from a DL, probably one of the centre section ones (31, 32 or 33) on 2 DL pins.

I'm surprised that the Listen Mics just appear on the mini LS and not the main LS although it may be to do with possible feedback within the control room. I'm not sure whether you have to hook up some mini LS to hear the Listen Mics or not.

Again, bear in mind I haven't used an SSL for a long time so my memory may be wrong!

Hope this helps somewhat. Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk).

[madmuso]

Yeah, I was surprised when I read that about where the listen mic's come back to (the mini LS) oh well, we will have to sort something out.

As far as the mults go, I recently read about radial engineering's chain drive 500 series unit which is a 1 x 4 line level splitter, im thinking that maybe a few of these in our racks would be beneficial because we would be able to use it in different ways for guitar tracking as well as multing signal from the ssl's patchbay.

Also, ive been thinking about utilizing plugin effects as well as the outboard gear we have. Can anyone recommend a way to have the aux sends on the console feed an fx plugin in the DAW. Im a little confused with how to get this happening with the SSL. I'll explain how I think this is done but I think im wrong.
Would you patch the consoles aux send (output) socket to the converters input socket (multitrack send patchrow) then in the DAW, assign that converter input channel to the plugins channel, then route that plugins channel out of the DAW (tape returns patch row) back to a spare channel on the console.
This is the only way I can think of how to do this. Am I on the right track!?

Im also curious to know any work arounds that people have developed if they ever run into the situation of not having enough aux sends on the console, I think once I start using this console this will be a bit of a problem for me because im so used to working in the box which isnt as limited.

thanks guys!

[sintech]

Hi, regarding limited amounts of Aux:

You have 48 channels, so I'd use the groups as extra FX sends via the small fader. This is very common practise.

Patch the group output to the FX unit, and return it on another set of small faders.

Regarding PT's plugins, yeah, that's exactly it:

Patch from the aux out to multitrack return that corresponds to the Protools input you want to use, make an 'Aux track' in the box, insert a plug in, set the outputs/spare set of outs (It helps if you have say 64 I/O)  to a pair of small faders.

[madmuso]

yeah, we will definitely be using the small faders as extra sends, your suggestion of bringing the return to small faders is great, I always think to bring back returns to the large fader in case i need to automate, but I suppose its a good idea to take advantage of the extra 40 inputs you can get with the small faders in mix mode!

I have been going over and over the manual to make sure that things are sinking in but there is one thing I cant get my head around.
I like to use a lot of parallel compression during mixing in my DAW, in software land I simply make a duplicate of the channel then apply different dynamics treatment, so on one fader/channel I have the original, and next to it on another fader/channel the one that has further/different dynamics treatment.

How is this best achieved on the console, where I can have a slightly tweaked original on one fader, then an exact copy of that on the next fader so i can tweak some more and blend to taste with original? I tried the "float" and subgroup way but the large fader on the "original" becomes disconnected from the signal. The only way I can think of is to make a copy of the track in the DAW, send each one to two different channels on the desk and make sure that BOTH channels have all knobs and buttons in exactly the same position, then I can treat one further/differently from there, this will work but im not sure how accurate it will be.

[sintech]

It's always going to be making the best of the console's real estate.

On a small console (24 channels), and lets say I wanted to use a TG1 limiter as the drum parallel, I'd actually use the stereo cue as the send(to the parallel), to preserve as many small faders, and bring the limiter back on two small faders. The send is post fader, so it will follow the balance whist automating.

I still have 4 Fx sends for verbs, and I always use them mono, and parallel them into anything stereo (via the patchbay parallel)

 If I wanted to treat on single track, I'd do a 'cut and split' : Say I have a bass guitar on channel 14, and I wanted to add a thick fat compressor as a parallel blend.

I'd take the insert send from Channel 14, send that to say an LA2A, then return the output to Channel 14 monitor input, bringing the LA2A back on the small fader.

So I'd have the original on the Large fader and the parallel compressed version on the small, with just two patch cables.

If I wanted to add an 1176 on to the large fader insert, I could use a Parallel on the bay to split the feed to the La2a, pre or post the 1176.

Get some extra parallels on your bay's :-)) you can never have enough.

[sintech]

You can pull feeds from the Tape Returns, without affecting the original signal path, (Tape return 14, to Line input 15) so this costs 1 patch lead, and saves one PT output.

[madmuso]

when you say "you parallel them via the patchbay" do you mean you are using the MULTS on the patchbay?

We are going to invest in some radial 1 X 4 splitters, a recent unit they've done, not only for console/mix multing duties but other studio duties that may come up, this way I can just unplug it and take to any of the live rooms if needed.

your 1176/la2a tip is great! Thanks so much! Thats just opened my eyes to the possibilities! Im loving this place! Thats the thing with manuals, they tell you how to use the console in a conventional way but it doesnt teach you how to exploit the console even further. I guess it also makes a difference when you have used one for a while and you learn to work around a units limitations. I cant wait to dig into this console.

Thanks again all! greatly appreciated! chat soon

[sintech]

Hey, yeah, we call MULTS, Parallels in the UK :-)

Most studios I used to use would have little blocks of 4 bantams wrapped in heat shrink, that could be used in the ultimate event of running out of console bay parallels/mults.

I know Jim has all the stuff to make this kind of thing up.

[madmuso]

cool, thanks again guys!

I have been trying to find documentation on the correct power up and power down method for the console. I also want to have a look at this paperwork to see what the various faults on the power supply fault indicators mean.

we discovered yesterday that the fault panel was displaying a fault, the "250V plasma" LED's for both power supply A and B were not lit, all the other vertical LED's were lit. However the console seemed to be working ok, even the plasma's. We didnt hear the fault indicator because the "audible indicator" was switched to mute. Is there anywhere I can get a copy of the paper work relating to the consoles power supplies? It seems the previous owner didnt have it or simply forgot to supply it.

We also discovered that the omni communications button doesnt work in the centre section which kind of screws up our plans to use the group outs to feed the headphone matrix amps in mix mode, however the omni button on the producer panel works! Would have been good if it was the other way around! I'll have to sort it out after we have solved the power supply issues.

thanks guys,

[madmuso]

more issues 

I noticed yesterday that after power up, the cut/mute leds on the monitor/small fader paths stayed on, regardless of whether the cut button was depressed or not. In order to hear audio on that patch i had to press the solo button. Anyone encountered this?

thanks,

[sintech]

Hi, one channels Logic must be stuck on, forcing all the others to cut.

You'll have to isolate that channel to find it. I'd do this by powering on/off buckets to find the bank of eight, then pull the modules in that bucket until the problem goes, and the channel in my hand is the patient.

[xmax]

On friday the 13th channel 13 on a 8k I was working on shorted out the solo bus, of course the same day
a big mix client came in to start a big session! I started by pulling the ribbons on the center section and
weeded it out pretty quick then had a scotch with the engineer!

[madmuso]

thanks Sintech,

as soon as Im done making tie lines and other stuff I'll see what I can do. Thanks heaps.

XMAX, I dont EVER want to experience anything like that!