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[madmuso]

Group Out=Multitrack Send. You can either deadpatch the multitrack in, set DAW meters to output or ignore.
Mike

cool, thanks Mike. So, hypotheticaly speaking, what happens if you were using all of your group outs during a mix and wanted to patch the consoles programme/main out back into your DAW to record the 2 trk? Im assuming that patching the console's mix output into multitrack sends 1 and 2 will remove the group out signal thats already present there? Now that I think of it, same goes for using DAW effects during a mix right?

thanks

[marcmozart]

It"s always good to have lots of converter channels. Few examples:

- Feed individual tracks into console (obvious!!)
- send to Reverbs/Delays in the DAW from Echo Send/Cue Send/Routing Matrix
(Think of the great Impulse Response Reverbs and how many o these units can be run on a 8-Core Mac)
- bring DAW FX-Returns up on the Small Faders (and/or Echo Returns in the Centre)

Reminds me that I'd love to have the mod on my desk that allows Echo Send 4 to be sent to the Routing Matrix. I think that was a feature of the very last G+ Classic Consoles. With this feature, using the routing matrix as FX Send doesnt use up the Small Fader.

[michaeldtech]

Group Out=Multitrack Send. You can either deadpatch the multitrack in, set DAW meters to output or ignore.
Mike

cool, thanks Mike. So, hypotheticaly speaking, what happens if you were using all of your group outs during a mix and wanted to patch the consoles programme/main out back into your DAW to record the 2 trk? Im assuming that patching the console's mix output into multitrack sends 1 and 2 will remove the group out signal thats already present there? Now that I think of it, same goes for using DAW effects during a mix right?

thanks

Yes.  That is the magic of a patch bay.

[madmuso]

Hey guys,

Is it ok to send a signal from one channel to more than one group out via small fader? Is the routing matrix designed for this or is it only designed to send the signal to only one group out? yesterday I was fiddling around with the console and out of curiosity I wanted to see if the signal from a channel would come out of more than one group out, so I pressed output button on the small fader then pressed the first 5 buttons that channels routing matrix and the signal appeared on the first 5 group outs at the patchbay. Im not sure that i'd be routing this like this in a real life scenario and maybe there is a purpose for it that im not aware of but I just wanted to know if its a bad thing to do.

thanks,

[StefanNowak]

Go for it.

[marcmozart]

Yes, very popular mix technique. Doing this all the time, like bringing up a Kick on 3 or 4 channels, compressing and EQing them differently and then finding a good balance.
In Mix Status, you bring the signals up on the VCA Fader by choosing Subgroup as input at the top of the channel module.

Hey guys,

Is it ok to send a signal from one channel to more than one group out via small fader? Is the routing matrix designed for this or is it only designed to send the signal to only one group out? yesterday I was fiddling around with the console and out of curiosity I wanted to see if the signal from a channel would come out of more than one group out, so I pressed output button on the small fader then pressed the first 5 buttons that channels routing matrix and the signal appeared on the first 5 group outs at the patchbay. Im not sure that i'd be routing this like this in a real life scenario and maybe there is a purpose for it that im not aware of but I just wanted to know if its a bad thing to do.

thanks,

[madmuso]

Hey guys,

Last night I was testing some of the outboard reverb units to make sure everything was hooked up correctly.

I had a mono drum track playing on one of the consoles channels and via aux send 1 I sent it to a lexicon 480L, (sent to the 480L's Left input only which drives its internal machine 1 and the first set of its stereo outs). I bought the 480L Left and Right returns up on 2 channels on the console. So I had the original on one fader and the effected signal on the other 2 faders.

I noticed that when I bought up the 480L return faders there was noticeable smearing/phasing happening, particularly with the hi hats and within a certain volume range, presumably towards matched level with the original. I set the 480L to DRY and did the following. I flipped the polarity on the fx return channels to see if the loom feeding the 480L was wired ass about but when I flipped it and got the levels matched the bottom end dropped a little which made me think that its not wired wrong. However, the severe "trough" you'd expect to hear with 2 almost identical signals reversed from one another didnt happen, it does happen but not like some of the other units in the same rack.

At this stage I thought it may be the arrival time difference from the cables going to and from the 480L so i decided to test another unit in the same rack (same loom, same distance which is around 10 meters total). I patched in a tube tech eq, set it to bypass and flipped its returns on the console, matched the levels, and almost all the signal was gone. Flipped back to normal it was reinforced, louder, etc. So the phase relationship between the original and the tube techs was much better than the phase relationship between the original and the 480L, even though its on the same loom and traveling the same distance.

You dont seem to notice it as much with a wetter reverb setting on the 480L, its a lot more obvious with shorter, drier, more room type settings but its still there and its not a good thing. even with its medium hall setting you could hear it and is unusable.

Next time I visit I will unplug the 480L's inputs and outputs and connect them together essentially just making the signal travel that loom path and see what happens.

Has anyone encountered this sort of thing before? Anyone got any suggestions on what may be happening?

thanks,

[madmuso]

Yes, very popular mix technique. Doing this all the time, like bringing up a Kick on 3 or 4 channels, compressing and EQing them differently and then finding a good balance.
In Mix Status, you bring the signals up on the VCA Fader by choosing Subgroup as input at the top of the channel module.

Hey guys,

Is it ok to send a signal from one channel to more than one group out via small fader? Is the routing matrix designed for this or is it only designed to send the signal to only one group out? yesterday I was fiddling around with the console and out of curiosity I wanted to see if the signal from a channel would come out of more than one group out, so I pressed output button on the small fader then pressed the first 5 buttons that channels routing matrix and the signal appeared on the first 5 group outs at the patchbay. Im not sure that i'd be routing this like this in a real life scenario and maybe there is a purpose for it that im not aware of but I just wanted to know if its a bad thing to do.

thanks,

Hey guys,

been away for a while, hope you are all well. Been busy as hell, its crazy right now.

I think I get what you mean here. So, I have a kick signal returning from DAW on channel 1 on console, I assign it to matrix number 1, 2 and 3, I patch in my compressors of choice to the 3 groups outs on patchbay, return the individual compressor outs to line inputs on channels 2, 3 and 4. Find a balance between all four VCA faders, then float all channels to one VCA group fader by hitting "subroup" on that channel and pressing the float button on the other four (as well as selecting the subgroup number in the matrix of each channel). My question is, if this is correct, the original kick channel number 1 is already utilizing its matrix and group out function, can you still float this channel to the VCA subgroup fader at the same time? Hope im making sense! Its late here right now!

thanks,

[madmuso]

always something I remember just after hitting send! 2 things actually!

1) In mix mode, do the solo and mutes button affect the signal being sent out of those same channels group outs via small fader?
Im thinking no because there already are a set of solo and cut buttons next to the small faders. But, the other day we were running a test session and we had a drummer playing going straight to DAW from outboard pres, returning to desk VCA channels and were sending him his monitor/headphone mix via the group outs of each channel, small faders were up and only the input buttons were engaged. We solo'd the kick while he was playing and he told us it also solo'd in his headphones, I was under the impression that you should be able to solo and mute the control room mix while not disturbing the artist during a performance, I like to do this a lot during tracking, especially drums and doubling guitars. Something we are doing wrong?

2) When using the small fader as a send fx fader, to send "pre" large fader do you simply press only the input button, and if you want it "post" large fader press only the output button. Im confused as to which scenario requires them to ever be both pressed an why?

well, thanks again guys, going to bed now, been a long week, sick as a dog and spent most of today in a hospital! booooo!!!!!

[marcmozart]

Great questions that I've been asking myself many times as well... hopefully somebody can enlighten us!

[StefanNowak]

Yep, SOLOs and MUTEs will affect the signal going to the groups. Learnt this the hard way!!

Have both the INPUT and OUTPUT buttons pressed if you want a pre fader signal sent with signal processing ie EQ and DYNs.

Stef.

[madmuso]

Yep, SOLOs and MUTEs will affect the signal going to the groups. Learnt this the hard way!!

Have both the INPUT and OUTPUT buttons pressed if you want a pre fader signal sent with signal processing ie EQ and DYNs.

Stef.

oh that sucks! I guess I can just pull down the large faders but thats gonna get annoying real fast, I guess there are gonna be some compromises when using the console in a hybrid sort of mode/setup, is to be expected.

RE small faders: Ok, cool, so it doesnt matter what combination of "input/output" buttons are selected for the small fader, the signal will always be pre fader but the inclusion of eq and dynamics is altered, got it. Thanks

Stef, did you have any insight on the question in the previous post about using a channels routing matrix to send its signal to the group out AS WELL AS assign it to a created VCA subgroup?

thanks again!

[StefanNowak]

I'm a little confused by all of that..

"VCA Subgroup" - are you referring to a VCA group or a physical/audio subgroup/buss?

Stef.

[madmuso]

I'm a little confused by all of that..

"VCA Subgroup" - are you referring to a VCA group or a physical/audio subgroup/buss?

Stef.

Yeah, sorry, im talking about an audio channel that has its "subroup" button pressed (not the groups near the centre section)