SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: horizonsound on July 17, 2019, 06:44:11 AM
-
Hi all,
Thought I might start this topic to document the build of a 4032E console.
The intent will be to provide as much information on this journey through photos / videos, as the console is being built up from scratch, including almost all wiring.
I'll be taking note of all the part numbers and suppliers along the way, to help anyone else out.
A few parts have arrived to date (thanks to Andy!), and the other are currently about to be loaded onto a vessel in the UK, arriving mid Sep.
This I'm sure, is going to send me down the rabbit hole!
82E26 Cards and MRACs -
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_48b5b1f889e842d7820f6ffcb5626f0c~mv2.jpg)
SL651E
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_efa379e1d87f4900ab644a4f0dd95afc~mv2.jpg)
Patch Bays
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_134ca6a1b3eb49b58f90834ee667faec~mv2.jpg)
Patch bay bucket
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4a324b475bd74814bf930b8b1d1f58a2~mv2.jpg)
A few channels / faders already here...
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_eb12f0aa244240708b74708f6f278510~mv2.jpg)
-
Awesome.
-
Hi Anthony
Just seen your pictures and good luck with your project.
I saw the patchbay pictures and know this will be a problem to solve. Argh, I wish the patchbays and wiring could have been diverted to me here in the UK as I can easily sort it out for your console as some people like Andy on here already know.
It is not difficult but I have the knowledge and proper SSL type parts to make it fit for purpose and it could end up almost ready to just plug in and go with the patchbay to Biccs, DL's and Mrac connectors (the Mracs needing you to terminate at the connector ends plus the Biccs to plug in). This is easy for me but probably much harder for you once you receive the bits and think gulp!
Did the whole lot get shipped out from Mike Stockdale (AES) to you? He is not far away from where I am (30 minute drive)?
Ruddy frustrating to witness this when I could have solved the patchbay wiring issue quite quickly.
Just noticed (1am on 18th July) that it may not be too late for AES to perhaps divert the patchbay bits to here before the rest of it is shipped to Oz.
If this makes sense and you want to communicate about it, before it ships, please contact me now on (jimlassenwiring@btinternet.com).
Regards and good luck regardless from Jim.
-
Brave man! I can't wait to see the progress.
Mike
-
Hi All,
The last month has been spent tracking down a lot of smaller items. Meters, faders, connectors etc.
I've been working on a power supply for the desk as well. Finally some success, this thing pumps out 27 Amps per rail, which should be able to cover 32 channels and master section.
This weekend I'll get it completed with the remote start and DC voltmeters installed and upload more pictures.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_be4f9f3eae5c46ef8be780c1c4a7f674~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_adc78428eccf42b1ace8948016f75244~mv2.jpg)
-
PSU Complete, with DC voltmeters and remote start!!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_afccb52c67784432a61be7ffd3eea628~mv2.jpg)
-
Looks like a lovely package, but I think you will find that you will have to add some sort of heat exchange to the unit.
Those are Meanwell supplies correct?? My guess that running at 18V with the current you need will need some cooling of the unit(s). So watch the psu when you first turn it on for overheating.
As you probably haven't linked the two supplies protection together, if one trips due to overheating then you will have single sided the console (ie giving it only one of the pair of supplies) This is not a good idea for any bi-polar supply circuit. It causes indeterminate dc levels to be created throughout the console. Usually a short term occurrence does no real harm, but there are possibilities of reverse biasing capacitors, etc, smaller effects that are cumulative but harder to identify.
Cheers
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your feedback on the PSU. There certainly has been a lot of design time put in to it. The build itself only took a fraction of the time spent on design / component selection.
Yes, the main 18V units are Meanwell ones that have an integrated fan. Without it, they are limited in output current to 17 Amps, which may be enough to run a bucket or two only.
The two supplies have not been linked via their protection, but I had in mind to install a relay latch so that if any one 18V rail goes down, the other gets switch off immediately. I believe CML Audio already make something like this that can be retrofitted at the console end.
All of the above is the reason I have no intention here of going head-to-head with the likes of Atomic. They have a reputation at stake and have built that, liability and potential consequential losses into their design and price point.
Anthony.
-
ah good
wasn't aware of the internal fan in that unit.
excellent idea to add single siding protection.
Cheers
Alan
-
Insanity.. Just spent 2 months rebuilding our 8064G+. Ups & down, but totally worth it, godspeed!
-
The ship arrived this week with one half of the console, after waiting three months for it at sea.
All I can say at this point in time is; dear God, what have I got myself in to??? Ha ha.... cue madman laughing.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_9f095130514e4a92b5b25bbf00508aac~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_ef80f0c70cd14670afe56bc3c3036aef~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_bf21ed75293a4d55848417de403c3e90~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3711a8a10d604120b9c38cb21874a767~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5bf9fda455404597846056c8347b57da~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d9ab07971ac241349e3730a311d89802~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_94ba30fb3bee453d8bb53b5b27a4b388~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_8fe78ad01d964f3980874a231f41bb5b~mv2.jpg)
-
a jigsaw puzzle!!!
cheers
Alan
-
a jigsaw puzzle!!!
cheers
Alan
And what a fun jigsaw puzzle that was today.
Job done. Next stage is waiting on the DL patch panel plate back from the laser cutter, and then I'll be working on the power distribution.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e899746848f747b38fcff8730cf7c2d2~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_bbccf1cfc778419cb666eaf9e0914af5~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi Anthony
Glad you have received some of your SSL console and I notice that the patchbay is 40 jacks wide. SSL made 40 wide to begin with, then 48 and later 56, 80 and 32.
The 32 and 80 wide (160 jacks in total) were not 19" wide, only the 40, 48 and 56 wide versions. I worked there from 1980 and know how the whole thing developed throughout the years.
I wish I could have had all that patch wiring here before it went to you but it was too late as I mentioned to you in a message and email. I could have sorted all that out within a week but now, it is your problem unfortunately but, you can contact me of course if you need any help.
Good luck with that but it is not a big deal if you think about it a bit. Just attention to detail and preparation really helps.
-
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the comments. They are all 48 wide patch bays though. Some are audio line but most are M&M.
Luckily a Tape Return / Line In split pair of bays was included, which must have came off a 72 channel console, so that has saved me a heap of time, as only cable shortening is required.
I'm putting together a BOM of parts I'll need from you, as a lot of the other bays are not normalled, and don't have switching jacks.
Yes you are right, patience is the key, and not to do it when you are tired. I made one small measurement error last night which has cost me an hour of rework.
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e8fa42500aa7463eb565e9d43e22a0bd~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_086f753a7ff3442d8f7c373f77ac1694~mv2.jpg)
-
Spent the last few days non-stop wiring, labelling, and terminating. My fingers are going numb. There is the best part of three days wiring to go, as the MRACs are not started yet.
I have developed a new found respect for Jim, as I could never do this more than once in a lifetime!!
Labelling
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e59e79f392c148898e3afc09d3772d02~mv2.jpg)
Half-normalling
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d5b2a58120644bae9f94d8ecd18070d7~mv2.jpg)
Looming up.. a little over half complete.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_68170dcd521243bbba0fa03b934179c1~mv2.jpg)
Patch Bay
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_14fc24a65a0a4824a1c47b3c2f3943e5~mv2.jpg)
-
respect! ✊
-
Total Respect!!
-
Wiring, more wiring, and power distribution.
I had a custom made patch panel made up for under the patch bay, which has a lot of XLR in/outs on it, coming from the 651. It also has cutouts for EDACs which my studio is wired up for.
Group Out / In split to Tape out.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_74fc369d8b424bdfb4141c9a4c2860d9~mv2.jpg)
More looming
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_05522131330d4e8998d0e95e64d2f824~mv2.jpg)
Console starting to shape up
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_bdd3fcbbd5e64633924ecfc2db737a83~mv2.jpg)
Power distribution on a custom made patch panel.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_c5e45df2bd24477e96a2753c1183f1fb~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi everyone.
I've been at home for the last 10 days away from my 'real' job, non stop wiring this up. 4am starts, going through to past midnight some days.
It is almost complete (wiring anyway), and now I am waiting on the IDC cable and connectors to do all the card links, and a few patch bay jacks to finish off!
This has been a mind bending exercise of repetition.
over 100 BICC connectors, 2 MRACs, and 6 EDAC connectors now completed!!!
Here are some photos.
Wiring station setup. This was 'home' for many days for me.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_da7e24722cb04efbab0cac133d0f8e40~mv2.jpg)
MRAC M2 cable with pins, ready for insertion. 49 signal cables.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_11106040a0954134964f91a15a8806fa~mv2.jpg)
MRAC partial pins complete. Not punched down fully.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_776a195540514699a971c3d8cd1e03a8~mv2.jpg)
MRAC M2 complete.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_049383258f16488c97eab77d7a243aeb~mv2.jpg)
Both M1 and M2 complete. M1 only had 26 signal cables, plus power. No producer panel connections.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a6082d16000343dfb3500609ef0e2c4a~mv2.jpg)
MRAC pin soldering jig. Just use two female pins in a vice grip, held up by a roll of gaffer.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_b58c988fdb5244c9a9da6a5c6f2815c1~mv2.jpg)
EDAC pin jig. I found an old prototype board and some pin-end EDAC pins. Really sped up the work.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_54323f930ca442d58c2b77e54ab2aeed~mv2.jpg)
EDAC pin insertions.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_ebff8cecb0184d7f894014b7a0fa24b3~mv2.jpg)
EDACs complete.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a0b2d7d2b91c451f95f722a20afaee16~mv2.jpg)
Console really starting to look like a console.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_75517dd22ea547a0a5a3a1934d2de481~mv2.jpg)
I may have BBQ'd something in the 651, when a temporary piece of panel, shorted across the traces. First smoke of the build.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_11fa83ecc2bf42919d37675246f54437~mv2.jpg)
-
HELP!
I've hit a bit of a brick wall here, and hope someone can help.
The master section is passing audio when patched in at the Pre-VCA inserts - bus compressor and master fader work fine, but when something is fed to the 82E26 card via the Quad Bus, then I get nothing! I believe it is a balancing issue.
Feeding a signal back through the echo returns works fine. I can trace the sine wave to the 15k resistors that drop it on to the quad bus. Then after that point, nothing.
The 651 centre section is a E series that seems to have had some mods done.
- Quad bus input comes in to Pin 5 of the 26 card, then are bridged over to Pin 6/
- Pin 8 180° inputs appear to have had their traces cut between each of the 26 card slots
- Lower card quad bus inputs via the S5E, come in to Pin 6 (bridged to Pin 5), and the 0v goes to Pin 8
So I kind of have a feeling that this may have been modded for a balanced quad bus system....kind of, but I can't even get success with the echo returns, with nothing else attached to the 651 via the S5E.
Any leads would be appreciated!!!!
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0a0a0f2e8a5c43519ebab4b694b77f57~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_2ceae03f55ad42229021b863f7ea41ac~mv2.jpg)
Stand completed
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e196da3adf314033983bdbee069d3c05~mv2.jpg)
Console up on stand. The room is getting smaller.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_81b1120e790f44039f43d2fa6b95f1c0~mv2.jpg)
Looming it up.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_27a6070e992548f48dc4e81f7b389c26~mv2.jpg)
-
something (a wire) is coming off the pin 8 segments, what is it and where does it lead?
It seems possible that this is a balanced mod. The easiest way out is to remove it. To implement it would require you to make the rest of the - input buss across the console. Now is the time for that if desired. I believe Andy described it somewhere in a previous post about how they did that on the 4000. Search is your friend.
Cheers
Alan
-
looking at your post again, I'm not quite sure you didn't answer my question with
"Lower card quad bus inputs via the S5E, come in to Pin 6 (bridged to Pin 5), and the 0v goes to Pin 8"
but I'm not quite sure what that means, I don't have a set of schematics handy.
Alan
OK, have schematics now
OK, I think I am starting to see it.
Not balanced, extended. The lower card slot is added to the buss and the ground return is redirected to that point.
pin 6 is an extra non connected point, it is added to the buss (bridged) to pin 5, that brings up the lower card buss input.
pin 8 is the normal ground reference, it is routed to the lower card slot ground reference, probably for lower noise reasons.
what is the lower card slot buss?? that seems to be added to the upper card slot buss.
Cheers
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
Yes, the main inputs to the 651 via S5E have the +ve going to pin 5&6 and the -ve or earth to pin 8.
I am testing with S5E disconnected, to take any mods on the lower E19 board, or mods on individual modules, out of the problem.
I'm wondering if i can completely bypass the first stage of the 26 card input, and bridge it to the 5534AN op amp proir to the PreVCA send. Might try that tonight.
Anthony.
-
make sure you read my edited remarks above
-
that sounds like some completely insane attempt to insert the noise from the +V into the buss. (in the inverted condition to cancel)
verify +v connection to 5/6 In
Alan
-
the first stage of the card is what keeps the summing buss low noise. Otherwise, not so good.
-
Hi Alan,
Yep, all connections verified. When i pull the 26 card out, i get a clean signal appearing on pin 5&6.
The -ve input on pin 8 of my 26 card has a 10k resistor (and 10nf cap i think) to 0v. The schematic has a 1k and 20k trim pot.
Maybe if someone has a schematic to an early version 26 card about, i could sort this out, and revert it all back to unbalanced.
Anthony.
-
that still doesn't sound completely right.
Verify if +V is still present on buss. and then test with the console busses disconnected from the 651
The cap to ground off the inverting input would need to be in the range of 470uF or 220uF to be a balanced mod. The 10k would be correct for balanced.
Yes, stock is 1k in series with a 20k pot to ground off the inverting input. on all versions of the card.
I'm still not sure what you are referring to as the lower card buss connector, I haven't been on a 4000 in some years. Is that the connection to the rest of the console? Is there still +V when you unplug that connector on the buss?
My general recommendation is to restore it to stock condition unless you can verify that the rest of the board is already set up for a balanced buss, that is superior and should be retained if possible.
Signal will always disappear off the buss when you have the 26 card installed as that is a current node, not a voltage node. Pulling the card and seeing if there is signal is a good test to see if the buss is being fed, but not a test to see if the summing buss is working.
-
Hi Alan
The lower bus card is the lower back plane card in each bucket which has the quad bus, 32 busses, and TR in it.
The quad bus +ve and 0v appear as they should at the S5E connector on the 651, all the way to pin 5/6 and 8 at the 26 card slot.
Will do more investigation tonight
Anthony
-
I still don't understand, the +V should not appear at pin 5 or 6
you could see a positive voltage at that point, but it would be after a voltage divider of 1M and 100k from the +V. A bias voltage for the input caps, or about 1.8V
And that only with the rest of the console disconnected.
Alan
-
Hi Alan.
Hopefully not confusing you there, but by +ve I mean audio signal hot, in phase, 0°, and not a positive voltage.
Anthony.
-
+ve is the power supply
so yes, confusing the issue
-
for our purposes we shall refer to them as mix buss + and mix buss -
mix buss + connects to pin 5 on 82E26, coming from S5E pins 1/4/7&8/11&12. LF/LB/RF/RB
mix buss - is 0V in the stock config
in a modified balanced config, it needs a buss with connections to each module, this connection would be a 10k resistor ( I think, I haven't checked the value, its the same as feeds the mix buss +) that connects back to the 0V on that module, if the buss feed has a cap in it this will too in the feed. In other words the exact same configuration as the mix buss + feed. If external to the mother boards its a long buss wire with 10k resistors to each module or something similar.
this new buss needs a path, there would be 4 return busses. one for each old buss. They could be routed thru S5E 0V connections, like pin 2 or 3 for buss 1. etc.
a picture of S5E might be helpful.
look at the buss cards for the new buss.
this should give you plenty of things to look for.
Cheers
Alan
-
Also, what is the provenance of this board and did you get an original manual with it?
Rant ON
the manuals for complex pieces of equipment, especially those that are custom made ARE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SALE OF THE EQUIPMENT.
This looks like a factory job to me and it would have been included in the change sheets and Anthony would not be having this problem.
Rant OFF
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
I picked up the 651 through AES, so would have to go back to them and check if there is any documentation. It was not a complete console, but lots of E series parts. My 26 cards came via Andy.
I have no doubt I'll get to the bottom of it, but it will take some time.
When i get back home tonight I'll summarise the setup of all the parts, but am starting to zero in on some ways to sort it out.
Thanks so far for the input.
Anthony.
-
As you are in contact with Andy already, see if he can't give you a run down on converting the console the rest of the way to balanced. I think you would like the results.
Its either one way or the other, remove the mods or finish implementing them.
Cheers
Alan
-
start here
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php/topic,1226.msg7511.html#msg7511
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php/topic,807.15.html
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=24070.0
-
Hi Alan,
Here is my best attempt at a schematic from the lower buss board, through to the 651, following the S5E quad bus.
There are no resistors inserted or bridged along the route. There are some of the mods on each channel though. A bit of a mix and match of old brown, mod brown, and mod black modules.
It looks like for the bulk of it, that it is still set up as unbalanced for the most of it, and might be easier to go down that path. This console being only 32 channels, I thought i read (thanks for the links) that the balanced option helps the noise floor on larger consoles where it is more susceptible (?)
Michael at AES advised that there is documentation, but in Japanese. Luckily I have a long term friend who's job is to translate technical documents from Japanese. What luck.
Schematic from 82E19 lower bus card to 651 / 26 card
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3e060ccc8c974382b37d610bfddabf3b~mv2.jpg)
Underside of S5E connector on 82E19 lower bus card
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_bdaec0b162c54b12a8fb5b69c3bebab3~mv2.jpg)
Top view of both upper and lower bus cards
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_161b773be1974e4a844089f6b9ca969d~mv2.jpg)
Typical "black" channel with resistor mods
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_838d41c3427b4dd7a013e392759c6e3b~mv2.jpg)
-
your last photo shows the "coat hanger mod", you see how simple that part is.
what isn't clear to me yet is the path from the lower buss card to S5E. The coat hanger mod feeds pin numbers ? (in the 70s)
Andy seemed to say that the later lower card did not require any mods, so you may be almost there.
regarding my earlier comments on the capacitor needing to be 220 or 470uF, that was a misconception on my part that the cap you were talking about was in series with the 10K resistor, it is in parallel and is an RFI filter. Ignore previous comments.
-
There are two parts to the mod on the channel modules.
The 4 x 15k vertical resistors feeding the cue sends (-) to pins 69, 71, 73 and 76 on the upper edge connector, and then the coat hanger wire which goes from pin 78 (mix 0v) on the lower edge connector, to what seems to be the mix amp- position on pin 10 of the lower edge connector - but the ground trace has been cut to the pin.
-
I haven't ever looked at a balanced mod, but I would expect the same structure to feed the mix buss -, pin 8 on hte 26 card. One per buss
a word on terminology complexity.
Pins 5/6 is the inverting (-) input to the summing opamp. Pin 8 is the non-inverting (+) input.
mix buss + goes to the inverting (-) input of the opamp. mix buss - goes to the non=inverting (+) input of the summing opamp
this is why its important to use unique terms for the lines.
-
Thanks Alan,
Sure is getting complex here, but am confident a solution is near.
I've run a signal in through the echo return to the LF 26 card, with the 26 card removed, simply to get a clean signal straight on to the mix buss.
The signal passes correctly, and drops about 1v p-p post the 15k resistors, and on to pin 5/6. There is a dc offset of around 0.6v
The echo return level works perfectly, and pans it correctly to the RF slot, and also the LB / RB slots.
When the 26 card is inserted, the signal "disappears" and all i have is the 0.6v dc offset on pin 5/6 - as if something is shorting it on the 26.
See some pics.
26 card connector testing points
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_bad4f0c2f2d6484e8e1cdcaa580281f9~mv2.jpg)
26 card
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_989215254f224db4a105301ea67eee9d~mv2.jpg)
-
that looks correct
we need to focus on the other input now, pin 8
is what you drew from the schematics or did you verify it as the AS BUILT drawings?
-
As built drawings!
Schematics are slightly different, mainly component values. (i.e. the 10k resistor in lieu of a 1k + 20k trim)
Actually, it’s a 100k fixed resistor from pin 8 to 0v.
-
what year is on the lower board?
-
Hi Anthony,
Just seen the FB link to this - as the designer of the "coathanger mod" let me know if there's any questions I might be able to answer! Long time ago but it comes back to me in the end :)
Cheers,
AndyM (there are two Andy's being referred to here, so just to prevent confusion!)
-
I have three of them, and my assumption is they are 1979(?)
There is no date, but the code is CF82E19A779 on each of them.
-
Hi Andy,
I sent you a personal message, but hoping you can assist here and get me out of this hole!
Anthony.
Hi Anthony,
Just seen the FB link to this - as the designer of the "coathanger mod" let me know if there's any questions I might be able to answer! Long time ago but it comes back to me in the end :)
Cheers,
AndyM (there are two Andy's being referred to here, so just to prevent confusion!)
-
Very very quick reply over lunch break, having skimmed through the above: don't worry too much about pin 8 for the moment. Whether it's connected to 0V somewhere, or to the "post 1986" resistors on the backplane or on the 611 (can't remember which at the moment?), or even if it's completely disconnected the main mix bus will still work.
With the '26 cards in you won't see any signal on pins 5&6, the mix amp action takes this to a "virtual earth". The question is whether you see a signal on pin 10, the mix amp output.
This is going to turn out to be something really simple - there's not much can go wrong here!
I'll try to find time to read through this in more detail later, and we'll keep in contact on PM.
Cheers,
Andy
-
Nothing coming out of pin 10 either!
I ran a signal through a module, routed it to the quad bus, and had it show up perfectly on the input pin 5/6, when the 26 card was removed. Same as my test via the echo returns.
As soon as the card is inserted, nothing seems to get past the summing amp of the 26 card.
I know from the pre VCA insert point it is ok, so it must be in the front end summing.
Anthony.
-
Some wins, still some problems.
I investigated this coat hanger mod, and mix bus - mod. The coat hanger is a a wire that effectively takes to 0v ground off the mix bus - on pin 10 of your module lower edge connector, and re-routes it to pin 78 of the lower edge connector. The trace is then cut, so the mix bus - is independent of 0v ground.
There is also the "pseduo" balancing of the quad bus (?) by adding four vertical resistors on pins 69, 71, 73 and 76 of the upper edge connector, and cutting the ground trace by drilling out the pad on the underside.
By reversing this, I was able to get the modules to function correctly. However, I still have the summing issue on the 26 card, so to work around this, I can route all channels to 31-32 mix bus, then patch the group out to the pre VCA insert return. Ugly work around for now, but at least I can start to trouble shoot other areas.
Coathanger wire cut at pin 10 and routed to pin 78
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_7ef12dd831504595a777dc84bbe398c7~mv2.jpg)
Coathanger wire start, near "Ready Tape" switch.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0ac9555875e44ae2851af0d4b5cb82dc~mv2.jpg)
Coathanger at pin 78
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_8a9254c463b44fb1a0ac8de5cd34e710~mv2.jpg)
Coathanger at pin 10 & trace cut.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5203eb864ab84aab90ba8eb9bc6322f1~mv2.jpg)
Pseudo balancing resistors
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_ee9a49af354045618d4e99da2eda0ac1~mv2.jpg)
Traces cut at pseudo balancing resistors on underside
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_6eafddf226574a45b44b746df691fd02~mv2.jpg)
-
there is no pseudo about it, it when implemented it is a balanced connection. What it is not is a symmetrical signal. But it is balanced and has all the attributes of a balanced line.
-
Sorry, it was a terminology used by someone with far more experience than I.
If these are related to the quad bus, there would have to be a mod somewhere to bring them over to S5E, as currently they head down S4E. The quad bus + is on S5E. I would suspect the mod would be in the 651, but i checked mine and that is not the case. They still head to the cue send cards.
-
Have you checked the voltages on card 26, it should be showing you something right now even if it is noisy or distorted.
-
Yep. +/- 18v on the main rails and +/- 15v for the VCA. Both within 0.05v.
I had to replace the regs on the 27 card that produce the +/-15v as they were out by 0.5 - 0.8v.
-
wow, looks like you have relays mounted next to the aux switches! never seen that before - was this stock? (and what for?)
-
I don't remember ever seeing relays like that! (Mind you there have been times in the past when I've said things like that and it turned out I designed them ::) ) Is that an 8k thing perhaps? (I wasn't involved in the 8k design.)
I really need to look at that quad bus wiring - it's annoying that after I did the balanced mod I didn't update the SxE wiring descriptions in the manual to record which ground went where in the ribbons.
I'm baffled as to why those mix amps don't work, it's very strange that all 4 are dead. Are you certain that the patchbay wiring isn't short circuiting pin 10 (insert send) to ground?
On a desk this small you don't really need the coathanger unless you have a very noisy studio so I doubt if your changes will have done much harm, but watch this space...
Cheers,
Andy
-
Hi,
If you can 'scope the signal on pin 5 with the 26 card out then there's nothing wrong with the channel strip.
What I'd do next is (assuming you don't have an extender for the 26 card) is to solder a piece of wire to the '26 card to T1 pin 6 (actually best to solder it to the end of R50 or R58 which connects to T1 pin 6) then you can attach this wire to the scope with the 26 card plugged in.
If there's a signal here but there still isn't one on pin 10 then I'll bet the patchbay wiring is shorting pin 10 to ground.
As I said before really don't worry about the grounds for the moment. If you want to be sure you could link the '26 card pin 8 to 0V (pins 53,54,55) for the moment while you're testing.
Good luck,
Andy
-
Thanks Andy,
The console is being moved today, so I'll check that out tonight.
Everything does point to a short to ground on the patch bay (already done that once during this build :-[ ), but I've checked everything and it seems ok.
Will do a thorough check once it's back together tonight.
-
There was quite an audible What The F>>! heard by the neighbours this afternoon.
I took Andy M's advice, and probed around T1 output Pin 6. Sine wave present (hmmm). Well, that was strange, so I moved on to T8 pin 6 output of the 5534 and again, sine wave present. At this point, I'm completely baffled, as the next point would be at the patchbay, but nothing!!
There was only one component between the two. R57 (47ohm)......
And there it wasn't. Both cards.... missing R57.
Installed a resistor in both and wow!! instant success. Quad buss now passing through the 26 cards!!!!
Test points on schematic
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_53c49afea8414805ab5460f987483d82~mv2.jpg)
Probing T1 - no need for soldering an extension wire, as they were accessible. You can see R57 missing on both.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_66434347a6f84c4391abe6383012eb18~mv2.jpg)
R57 missing
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d262055d36a546fc86ae396b4f562e96~mv2.jpg)
Console stand being painted
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_6e13021ff81f46d0958da1730623ddf9~mv2.jpg)
Studio looking empty
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_72e6c9347b34469ba68bbf8be0384cc9~mv2.jpg)
Moving in
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_54ba7fe06acb40dfbd6be7dfa68ba284~mv2.jpg)
Fired up.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_b5ecc571bde841fcae44b214b2332ab8~mv2.jpg)
-
ah, the little things
:-)
Cheers
Alan
-
Brilliant! ;D I'd have never guessed that one...
-
I know. It’s so absurd, you would never suspect it as a first point of “failure”.
Next job is the 82E20 VCA card, which had some shorted out BFR39 / 80 transistors, that smoked up the room when the main fusing resistors lit up.
-
Hi Anthony
If there is a short on the patchbay, it would most likely be between the ring (cold) to the screen (as they are close together on the jack) and probably a result of too much solder being applied to the ring terminal which somehow shorts to the screen terminal in the patch jack and could be difficult to spot until you test the wiring and pull your hair out wondering what it is (I have had this on a few occasions before over nearly 40 years but, when I found it, I learned the lesson and try to prevent it these days with a visual inspection as I go along and before too many things are plugged in, which complicated matters further.
Sorry I haven't got back to you yet about patchbay jacks etc. I will make a note to contact you within the next few days via email. Been very busy here with various issues (work, domestic etc).
Regards from Jim Lassen.
-
It's been a little while since the last update.
Now the console's in a condition where I can nut out the smaller problems.
So far it's been a lot of 5534 op amp, J112 FET, 212 problems, mostly on the logic cards.
Had a 2151 blow out as well.
Getting the channel extender has sped up the progress.
Have picked up non-functional 5" CRT, which is not the motorola M1000, but a (JVC) ME-561EZ, possibly a local replacement - if it had spent it's life in Japan.
Notice that phosphor burn in!! Would be cool to get this working again.
Edit : A bit of progress on getting the screen working. Think I might have the Atari connected permanently!
Tasmanian Oak arm rest coming together today.
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_6f54ef8ae99444d3aecce4bceab90b6c~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_14ee8d2333044b94a589c3f6651648af~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3202f6edab944cee9604069fdc7b8d1e~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a648c3cd228045249d3df814f32ce29a~mv2.jpg)
-
I would recommend going to LCD
the old school video monitor has a flyback coil and attendant noise is generated by it and coupled into the desk. Its not much but its there. Get rid of it.
and lower the power consumption and heat generation.
Cheers
Alan
-
You are correct around the potential of additional noise, though the power consumption is actually quite minimal. 12v at around 600mA. I’m running it off a plug pack.
Seeing as I’ve not attempted a CRT Tv repair since I was 12, this is more for the fun of it.
Anthony.
-
When the original monitor design went obsolete sometime in the 1980s I had the delightful :( job of trying to find a low enough noise replacement. Complete pain in the backside. Absolutely put in an LCD!!! Otherwise unless you're REALLY lucky you'll get 15.625kHz coming out of all orifices. Because (nerdy fact) it's mostly magnetically coupled in to the desk it's almost impossible to avoid, hence the mu-metal box around the monitor (which helps a little tiny bit).
The monitors in pre ?1985? desks are surprisingly good (but not perfect). It was a real shame the manufacturer of them changed the design, I vaguely remember it was because the CRT they used went obsolete.
What you need is some software that makes an LCD monitor display look like a slightly wobbly CRT ;D
Cheers,
Andy
-
I have seen the posts on the inboard 5" (I think) monitor in the console.
If this is of any help, the internal (within the console) wiring just consisted of a 75 ohm minimal small diameter coax cable plus a 2 core grey cable (0v, plus 12v (I think). The whole loom was (or should be) protected by a braided screen at both ends to 8 way round BICC conectors and screened at the console connector panel. After that it went to (or rather came from) the 691 computer rack.
PS: Is it just me or can anyone access and see your pictures Anthony as they ALL seem broken and unable to see now (they were fine before)?
-
Hi Jim,
I think you are correct on the cable. Standard 75ohm for the composite, and a 2 core + shield for the power. The shield terminates to the frame at the TV end, and carries 0v and 12v DC. 8 way BICC Trident Series connector
All the photo links are to my studio facebook page and should be public. I can still see them in the posts here, but that may because I am still logged in to facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/Horizon-Sound-201286016566616/
Anthony.
-
I was given an awesome birthday present yesterday - a 3D printer - so no more relying on the brother in-law.
Thought I might go back to the VU meters and print out the new design for the AL29WF adaptor.
The test run came out far better than I expected. The finish is beautifully smooth as well. It snaps in perfectly to the SSL fascia plate, and the AL29WF sized meter (hairball in this instance), clicks in easily behind it. No fiddly screws necessary. I have a PCB designed to mount behind it, that will have integrated VU lighting LEDs - if you don't want the light box- along with status LEDs, and connected via the standard 10 pin IDE connector.
I will run off a full bank of 8 adaptors in black, over the weekend.
Lastly, the mini TV is fixed. A basic recapping exercise.
Anthony,
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_b784bbefcdd24c14844d221c35666301~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e69957f46d544631b6c104762dead40f~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_349fc1aa55aa49f5ad6a138afdc366b2~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_97a69a5d357a4a4a982ec54bf0e1f306~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_876f364a624d43f6a63324b5509da901~mv2.jpg)
-
Ah, nice to see a craftsman at work, but I'm with those who say change that monitor. There are lots of little screens that will take video direct. But well done on the monitor mend. And please continue with the thread, its lovely to watch, but I'm glad its not me doing it!
-
Completed the Tasmanian Oak trims. Looking nice!
Removed the BICC 8 pin to the mini TV, and added a 3D printed block with power and composite video connector.
Seems like it will be a long wait for the next 16 modules to complete this.
If anyone has a spare bucket (frame only) and wants to part with it, hit me up.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_1998d9a75de54a3aadce663096542ad0~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4eee03e665794690a8bfff75346a773e~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cc7d4b0f417e4168b2ee96df54303732~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi All,
First of all, I'd like to say thanks to everyone that has helped me along the way this year. Your advice has been extremely helpful and appreciated.
I had not planned on building a 4000E at the start of the year, and kind of fell in to it, but with no regrets.
The process has really pushed my knowledge of electronics.
A small xmas present to myself, I've picked up a G series computer with TR, 8" and 3.5" drives. Bypass unit is on a slow boat out of Japan.
First challenge is to put together a PSU for the computer. This one is a little more complex than the main console PSU!!!
It will be a week at least before it can be powered up, as the computer did not come with the main PSU connecting cable. ITT trident parts always seem to have a week lead time...
As it is a G series 4100A processor, the 3.5" drives cannot be used at this stage, and I am also waiting on an 8" program disk.
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0406d8c5d70a4e60b953238cad9f7ec5~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_8f1f8500cec4413aa6353abc275dc067~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi Anthony
I don't know about anyone else but I can't see any of your pictures again as the image is just a blank box with an image of a broken file or picture in it. Try using a different method to upload the pictures (from a different device?).
As regards the ITT Bicc Trident connectors that SSL used for their consoles, here is a link to the website so you can see the technical details.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1694739.pdf
I have had a quick look through the PDF and the relevant connectors that SSL used are on the following pages:
1 Rectangular: Pages 9-13
2 Round: Pages 26-33 and 35
3 Crimps: 64 (the crimp type and NOT the stamped type which you may wish to use as a solder type version ... but I would NOT recommend this as it creates a rigid joint and could break).
4 Tools: 74
Farnell/Newark and RS Components supply most of these, if these companies make sense for those of you outside of the UK.
I will try to explain the various connectors and crimps in detail as a separate topic elsewhere on this forum when I have time and hope this helps for now.
-
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info. All the ITT connectors arrived and I have completed the cables and PSU, and fired up the computer for the first time.
A few bugs to sort out first - needed to install isolating standoffs on the Keyboard/VDU card due to shorting (common problem).
I'm still working on obtaining an 8" program disk from someone to be able to boot it, but so far it appears to be following the correct startup process, and sits on the "garbage" screen.
Andy H has a few good videos on youtube showing the boot up sequencing.
Jim - I've checked the picture links from other computers whilst not logged on to either the forum, or facebook, and they all work. Would be good if another forum member can confirm they are all working as they should.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cf8c7ed186524316a662af5f57ec8a88~mv2.jpg)
-
Pictures work for me on PC and Mac and Ipad.
-
Hi Anthony
I still can't see any of your pictures and I use a Mac. I saw some from before but even they are broken now although I can see the pictures from other people but just not yours! Frustrating and maybe it's a 'me and machines thing'.
Any suggestions from others would be handy to know. May be I will access this site from a different computer and see what happens.
-
Thanks Jim
I'll need to look for another host site for the pictures, as the early ones are now having "link expired" errors from facebook and are disappearing.
Anything but photobucket, which is a PITA!
Anthony.
-
I see some pictures there and some gone, no pattern to it.
-
Hi Anthony again
Putting your pictures on Photobucket may explain why they go missing. I thought you just attached them on here which is what most people do I think. Try that and see if it works although a hacker got into this site a few years ago and all the pictures were broken. After that Matt took steps to safeguard the site I believe so it should be alright now!
As a result, I need to spend some time trying to find the same pictures from my iPhoto file and put them back on my posts on here but it will take some time.
-
Hi Jim
I've moved the photos to my wix site and the first three pages of this 4032E thread are moved.
Can you check now.
Anthony.
-
I see pictures on page 1! Didn't check further.
-
All photos links have now been fixed.
Hope that works for you Jim!
-
Hi Anthony
I thought I had replied to this but obviously not.
Yes, I have had a look through some of your posts and can now see all the pictures, some of which existed before and then didn't until now.
I will have another look at them and comment when I have time. Well done sorting them out so we can view them again.
-
It's been a busy week doing a lot of little enhancements to the console.
All the 50way IDC internal wiring has been done for the computer.
I'm anxiously waiting on the 8" program disk, which should let me know if the computer is functional or not.
So far when it powers up it seems like all is OK, then sits on the 100Hz and Run A leds. This I understand is when it is waiting to load the program disk(?)
Here's a little progress :
Found the last bucket and bus cards locally. And a TR Bus Driver card. Thanks Simon!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0d8bfbc4d25148778b23e23633745e5f~mv2.jpg)
Meter Distribution Card installed. Aux / Cue meter panel is in transit. Thanks Damir!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_1c89c725a01b41409ddb2820a269519d~mv2.jpg)
50 way IDC, SMPTE, Mini TV, Tape Machine connection panel.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0c0541ddcac545a4afcae3703d6a4bb9~mv2.jpg)
RGB to VGA converter installed. The remote voltage display is hooked to the power supply sense, as I don't have an active sense return to the computer PSU. Roughly a 0.5v drop from the PSU to the computer.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e64aaa0451c0462a883a5a8cff387cc3~mv2.jpg)
RGB to VGA card. Powered off the computer PSU 5v.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_6e78b679abb34bf083bf5bbd7165cae9~mv2.jpg)
Mini TV, ready for action.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0c845007d43a4d78974731824a637239~mv2.jpg)
A blowout on the echo returns board. Not my fault this time!!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_8f98a34f13224aecad4ad376e2769e7b~mv2.jpg)
-
The 8" Program disks finally arrived.
All I can say is that I am a very happy person today!!!!!
After a few attempts to start, it booted up. Now to find some spare 8" reel discs.
https://youtu.be/nJrNC9OGGOQ (https://youtu.be/nJrNC9OGGOQ)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_7bbb317cbc5543b4add108fe511c49e8~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_857d4b04c66447dbaee8a2bd0507b7aa~mv2.jpg)
-
I am following this thread very closely...I love it!
Well done on all your hard work and thank you for contributing with so much information!
Matt Sartori
-
I am following this thread very closely...I love it!
Well done on all your hard work and thank you for contributing with so much information!
Matt Sartori
Thanks Matt, It's been a real adventure so far.
Today I picked up some IBM formatted 8" discs. By absolute chance there is someone 20mins from my house that has a museum of old computers from the 70's, and something like 20+ 8" drives. He was able to pre-format all the disks to IBM for me.
After a little lubrication and adjustment of the Reel drive, it's now fully up and working!
Tomorrow will be spent doing the last of the wiring and hooking up the SMPTE / Machine control to the Otari MTR 90 II. Then to test out some mix automation.
Anthony.
Video of full boot-up sequence with 8" drives opened up.
https://youtu.be/tAVs-Hps1s0 (https://youtu.be/tAVs-Hps1s0)
-
Hi all,
After a very successful day finalising and testing the computer, I have come across an error which I cannot find any reference to.
When generating SMPTE to tape, it stops after around 30sec to 1min with "Error: Code 23"
Prior to this, I have noticed that the SMPTE is generated clocking x1.37 faster than the tape machine counter. I had put down 62sec of SMPTE (by the tape machine counter), though it had generated 1min 25sec on the SSL computer. I suspect a clocking error here in the SMPTE generator, though cannot work out where its master clock comes from, other than pin 63 on the edge connector.
In addition, I have been getting the odd error on booting : "System timer is too slow to control Tape Machine" , and once or twice "System clock not working"
As there is no schematic for the processor board, I'm not sure where to start. Has anyone come across this before??
Any help is massively appreciated.
Anthony.
Error while generating SMPTE
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_c57fe73a2169477285f89928f345665b~mv2.jpg)
Setup of Otari MTR90 II machine
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3793a0f72bbd4fe28f358b761cd2cd08~mv2.jpg)
-
Some good news on the TR computer. Seems to load up, save, and play back setups. Even got the screensaver!
All this without the TR Bus Driver card being installed, and hence, no multiplex cards. I have a few test multiplex cards arriving tomorrow, and the computer bypass unit finally arrived from Japan.
For the system timer issue, I'm feeling it's the 4x AA batteries on the Tape Machine card. I'll replace those with some known brand ones. Any suggestions otherwise?
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5132a4b63395449a9b6f648da994d68c~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi all,
TR system is now fully functional. I received two trial boards, and after a bit of debugging, got it all working perfectly. Now to acquire a truck-load more 03 boards.
Today was spent developing a virtual tape machine to allow the DAW computer to work with the SSL computer.
The core is an ATMEGA32, using an Arduino Uno.
Seems to go OK, but needs some tweaking on the tach rates and switching logic.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_168d1158991044049c077217bb22d02b~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d44285b6caa34c17860deb4eb92e697e~mv2.jpg)
-
I have been following this post intently and somewhat in awe! Amazing, especially in the time frame. But I am also a little jealous. I have to pay $1000 for a Konnector or Smart 2Tools and $4000 for a new modern power supply. I guess I should have paid more attention in school!
-
I have been following this post intently and somewhat in awe! Amazing, especially in the time frame. But I am also a little jealous. I have to pay $1000 for a Konnector or Smart 2Tools and $4000 for a new modern power supply. I guess I should have paid more attention in school!
A lot of development had gone it to both the Konnector and Atomic, so I don't see any issues with them recouping their time and costs. I spent roughly 100 hours on research for my PSUs, even though there is less than US$500 worth of parts in it. The market is not huge for these items, so a fair mark-up is required per unit.
The official Konnector obviously has been well thought out and tested. My virtual tape machine has taken about 30 hours of development, and all it does is mimic the tach and direction of a tape machine, to allow the mix to locate and be ready for update. I'm looking to add in MMC soon so that once located, the SSL transport controls will start up the DAW. Maybe a nice MTC display as well, but that is not 100% necessary.
Anthony
-
Great respect for this project!
I always wondered why the console automation needs two time information: SMPTE and pulses from MTR.
After all, SMPTE would be enough to locate an update punch-in place. In fact it works without pulses with only SMPTE connected. Is there any inaccuracy with no pulse reading?
Regards
Wiktor
-
Hi Wiktor,
I believe the way it works, is to accurately “estimate” position when locating, by using the tach pulses. Exactly the same way a tape machine locates with tach pulses (eg: my Otari MTR90). When the tape machine goes in to play and with a track striped with SMPTE, the SMPTE takes over and provides the exact position the mix is referenced to. This can either be slaved off the SSL with a synchroniser controlling the tape machine capstan speed, or SMPTE provided to the SSL and the SSL will follow.
But, it needs the initial tach to get to the “start” position of the mix to be updated, before going in to READY state.
Anyone please jump in and correct me. All the above is assumed, based off the behaviour of the transport I have witnessed.
Anthony.
-
Yes, you may be right. Pulses may help SSL to catch up after winding tape or changing location in DAW so updating starts exactly when you PLAY on DAW or MTR with no delay. Probably reading pulses is easier and faster for SSL computer then translating SMPT. I'm just guessing... I am only locked with SMPTE and sometimes I have to wait 1 - 3 sec. for automation to catch actual levels after changing position. Anyway, fantastic job! Congratulations! :-)
-
And of course, SMPTE cannot be read when the tape is spooling.
Midi Transport Control integration is nearly complete.
Will post some photos and videos in the coming days.
Anthony.
-
The tach pulses are used when the machine is in wind, to give you the rough location. Then once SMPTE is being read, everything locks to it. Boxes like the Konnector simulate the tach pulses. I think from memory if you are locking to Protools, you can use MTC output from Protools when you play a bit.
-
Here is a short video of the prototype board.
I'm short a midi din connector, and once that's sorted, can install it in to the console.
A few of the midi commands need to be fine tuned.
The fast wind speed of Cubase (OK admission here - I'm not a protools person), matches exactly the tach rate - 10x play rate, so it should move relatively in sync with the SSL timecode clock. When dropped in to play, the SMPTE generated in Cubase will drive the SSL computer.
Anthony.
https://youtu.be/ArdG4_2XE7k (https://youtu.be/ArdG4_2XE7k)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_51a4a6a6c821481092f02b467bf4cd21~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi all,
A couple of big days finalising this virtual tape machine.
Machine control complete. Added Midi Time Code returned from the computer.
3D printed a matching bezel, and installed it in the meter bridge.
Top line shows tape machine status, with frame rate on the far right. Timecode on second line.
The code still needs a bit of work as there are a few glitches in it, but overall it does the job.
https://youtu.be/XjrcJyvBRcg (https://youtu.be/XjrcJyvBRcg)
Main Board
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4e971179d290407482a152b9da7536fd~mv2.jpg)
Display
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_7845cdf691624565bc3218fcadf6cd35~mv2.jpg)
Midi Breakout Board
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_297eb1b5c5f4488b86230dc865603915~mv2.jpg)
Rear of Bezel
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cc22bbb433a344268d102601e3caff4f~mv2.jpg)
Front of Bezel
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d81583527ddc4c38be504d6b0de68617~mv2.jpg)
-
Really nice work Anthony!
Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk
-
Hey everyone,
Is there any technical information that exists around the 4100 processor board?
I am working on using a SCSI2SD emulator, to hopefully emulate the Bernoulli drive. After setting it up with all the info I have, the computer is throwing up a "SASI Interface Not Responding" error.
In the service manual, this points to a processor error :(
Surely some documentation would exist somewhere on the processor? Or, has anyone been successful (or not), in using a SCSI emulator for the Bernoulli drives?
There does not seem to be anything special regarding the setup of the drive. It's a direct connection via the 50 pin IDC to the processor board. The Bernoulli as I understand, was an OEM from Iomega.
Anthony.
-
Anthony,
maybe is problem in speed of interface,floppy emulators...
125/150/250Kbits/s (FM/SD floppies)
250/300Kbits/s (MFM/DD floppies)
500Kbits/s (HD floppies)
Cheers,
Damir
Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk
-
Hi Damir,
I’m using a SCSI2SDv5.1 which states it can run at 1.1 to 2.6MB/s.
The “SASI interface not ready” error is appearing, even when the SCSI2SD is disconnected from the 50 way IDC.
Anthony
-
Glad to see you taking on the job of getting an sd card reader solution.
One company will even take your boot disk and load it on the sd ram for you.
If you can add an sd to a Fairlight series II it must be possible for us.
Thanks for being here. The 3.5 drives are not special either other than scsi with id set pins.
-
Yes, I'm motivated to get this working, though am not sure if I have an inherent issue with the SASI controller on the processor board.
If anyone else has a 4100A processor and could verify, by enabling the 20MB Cartridge option in the setup, then disconnecting the Bernoulli drive (or perhaps you don't even have one), if the "SASI interface not responding" error appears on start up.
I need to determine if the non-response error is due to the emulator not responding, or if there is a problem with my processor.
To verify the processor, I'm hoping to get a hold of a Bernoulli drive as well, just for testing.
Anthony.
-
masochist
-
Cruel Allen! Hehe! Someone has to do it!
Theres a lot of stuff on the web about SASI being very close to SCSI.
See this post
https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/10900/was-the-ancestor-of-scsi-the-sasi-protocol-nothing-more-than-a-draft
Also, SCSI is generally very picky about termination, so make sure you have the bus terminated.
-
We'll at this point, I'm seeing absolutely no activity on my SCSI port on the processor board (using a data scanner), so either there is a problem on the board, with the cable, or with the emulator. It's not an ideal start.
I will not be defeated however...
Does anyone at all have any kind of documentation for the 4100 processor board?
Does it even exist, or was it kept private due to CA manufacturing the boards, and not SSL?
Anthony.
-
Trying to keep my mind off other things.....
Last week I've picked up 10 more E modules, and have 24 VU meters being shipped - should they ever arrive....
Had a problem with the computer where 6 hours in to a session, the VDU went on the fritz. It was quite hot in the control room having the console, computer, and 2" machine running. I had to shut the computer down after a few attempts of restarting did not fix it. In the morning it worked correctly and is back to normal.
The computer was running and responding to commands perfectly, just with garbage all over the screen. TR worked fine as well.
I'm assuming this is the MM2102AN Video Memory, on the Keyboard and VDU card? 8 chips of 1024 bytes each?
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_86181767bd2343e6b670fb782ad89e4a~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0679730f108e47318b630ceef81bea51~mv2.jpg)
-
It's been a while since I've updated how things are going with the console.
Being locked in for the last 7 weeks, has allowed me to get a fair bit done, apart from one day spent down with Simon Stav, going over his console and picking up spare parts!
Added 10 more channels (thanks to Simon)!
Multiplex cards now installed on all channels.
E55 meter distribution card installed - ditched the G series one.
Phase meter.
Second LCD screen to show status indication (Solo, Dim, Studio LS, Listen Mic).
Got the last 24 VUs stuck in Detroit until USPS starts operating again.
Console as of today
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_1eb8206ae28c440b9f849ebccf3af35d~mv2.jpg)
Phase meter, and status LCD
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_acf3a602896a46e3863d21c4dcfaf683~mv2.jpg)
Phase meter card recapping
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a48d34434aed4feca66996e029fdbbc3~mv2.jpg)
Multiplex card standoffs being 3D printed
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4de0e641eba14efa9e6a7a21cd87079d~mv2.jpg)
Developing the status LCD. This runs off the S56E status cable. Converts the +11/+18v logic back down to +5/0v through a reed relay.
Once again, the core is an ATMEGA328P
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5a3908f3d53d404f91311437ffa2e451~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_f870c10732a64230a994d41655b5ccf4~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_aec21d37dae54d61a558fee3d81cd948~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5670db5f74d6418ab0c1fb03f4b19371~mv2.jpg)
-
You are a genius Anthony!
Amazing job!
Regards.
Oihan
-
Hi Anthony
I like the console pictures with the frame covered in wood as opposed to black SSL material as this always looks better and more appealing in my opinion.
Also, I admire the way you have re-created the offset spacers for the 03 (?) Total Recall card via 3D printing. SSL did these in a hurry when various things changed due to the change in pots from Sfernice (the white versions) to the blue Clarostat types in the early 1980's and the screws used for all the cards secured to the 611 Motherboard were M3 (normally M3x10 pozi pan I think but some were M3x6mm PP). These screws cut their own thread into these plastic or nylon spacers as far as I am aware.
Good luck with your console build and I will post some more wiring info shortly in a new topic as I have found loads more info after having a sort out here.
-
Thanks Jim!
Yes!, those spacers have been made with a Ø2.8mm hole, which allows an M3x6mm to cut it's own thread, and avoid more BA screws ::)
They come very close to Cue 4 pot, so care needs to be taken on installation.
I found that when the multiplexer has not been installed for a long time, the S21E 20 way header pins get very oxidised. This carries the main VCA signal to and from the computer and 013 Card, along with +18/-18v. On a number of occasions it was so bad that it required moderate cleaning with Dexoit.
Very happy with the way the Tasmanian Oak trims came out. This was my first attempt at using a biscuit joiner, to create the large end panels. Always a risk when the raw timber itself is quite expensive.
Anthony.
-
Thanks Jim!
Yes!, those spacers have been made with a Ø2.8mm hole, which allows an M3x6mm to cut it's own thread, and avoid more BA screws ::)
They come very close to Cue 4 pot, so care needs to be taken on installation.
I found that when the multiplexer has not been installed for a long time, the S21E 20 way header pins get very oxidised. This carries the main VCA signal to and from the computer and 013 Card, along with +18/-18v. On a number of occasions it was so bad that it required moderate cleaning with Dexoit.
Very happy with the way the Tasmanian Oak trims came out. This was my first attempt at using a biscuit joiner, to create the large end panels. Always a risk when the raw timber itself is quite expensive.
Anthony.
I have a tone of those stand offs for sale 3D printed as well :-)
-
Hello all.
It has been a very long wait due to covid related postal delays, but after almost 4 months, the last of my VUs arrived.
These 24 are fitted with the Recycled Audio LED illumination. One is non-functional at the moment, and I plan to upgrade the other ones to match.
Now only needing 6x 611E modules, and 6 VCA faders, and it's all complete.
I was looking forward to my first session in a long while this weekend, but our state has tonight gone in to a 6 week full lockdown and we've had to cancel this, and all subsequent ones. :(
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_46a6a74072e2448ca581956fc7320418~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_9ad77ad4e9404b6486a445c931202f66~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_92a8231d506b437cb8c22f956a40932d~mv2.jpg)
-
ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!
-
FYI, I have had success in an 8 inch drive emulator to USB!
More info soon, but it is working flawlessly, so I am super excited tonight!!!
Anthony.
-
Its great to see you getting this together, good work, sorry about the lockdown! Stay strong!
-
Its great to see you getting this together, good work, sorry about the lockdown! Stay strong!
I'll get some pictures together this weekend, as I want to clean up all the wiring. So far it's working a charm. I have a program disk loaded, along with multiple blank reel disks. All copy functions are working as they should.
The lockdown has given me plenty of time to nut this out (over 5 months so far, and still another 4 weeks of hard lockdown to go).
Had to sneak out and buy some parts, under fear of being fined $10k.
But all this is nothing compared to the other crap I've had to deal with this year, so it's not too bad.
Missing gigs and recording though.
Anthony.
-
Wow. Any hope for 3.5 replacement?
-
Wow. Any hope for 3.5 replacement?
3.5" would be dead easy. I have an SSL 3.5" drive, but also have a 4100A processor, so can not test it.
The 8" requires many stages of configuration from wiring, jumper settings, firmware and disk setups. The drives come in on a 40 pin, then split to 50 pin for each drive. It then needs to be converted back to 34 pin for the emulator.
It's such a strange feeling booting up the computer, and not hearing the clunk-click of the drives.
Anthony.
-
Anthony your a damn genus. 8)
If you set these up and sell them I'm in.
Many thanks for your time.
-
Here it is!
I simplified the wiring by eliminating the 40 to 50 pin board that the 8" drive unit uses - the 82E113 Floppy Interface Card which converts the incoming 40 pin S85E cable, to two 50 pin S86E cables.
Instead I built a custom 40 pin to 2 x 34 pin board so that both a Program and Reel emulator could be installed.
As I only have one emulator, I installed a switch, that selects between the Program or Reel disk. All disk images are stored on the USB. DISK_00.HFE is my Program disk, and DISK_01, DISK_02.... are the Reel disks.
Finally, it was much simpler to install all of the above in an excess 3.5" drive enclosure I had, as the 5v power was already present, and the emulator fits perfectly to replace a 3.5" disk.
Here's the video of how it all works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OBPD7AdiFs
Anthony.
-
Wow Anthony!!! You are the genius of SSL 4000 refurbishing!!
Amazing job!! Well done!!
Best regards!!
Oihan
-
Very cool indeed!
on the emulated drives, how much date per image? same as the 8"?
I'd love to do one of these
R
-
Yep, exactly the same as an 8" disk, 256K.
But you can have 1000s of disk images on a 1GB USB stick.
Next challenge is the 20MB Bernoulli.
Anthony.
-
I'd like to do this too, I have a konnektor with works well but is a but the target window has to be see too large for me which results in locations that are a bit random. also would be nice customize a little.
the UNO seems fast enough to deal with tach and MTC well?
Roy
Hi all,
TR system is now fully functional. I received two trial boards, and after a bit of debugging, got it all working perfectly. Now to acquire a truck-load more 03 boards.
Today was spent developing a virtual tape machine to allow the DAW computer to work with the SSL computer.
The core is an ATMEGA32, using an Arduino Uno.
Seems to go OK, but needs some tweaking on the tach rates and switching logic.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_168d1158991044049c077217bb22d02b~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d44285b6caa34c17860deb4eb92e697e~mv2.jpg)
-
Which emulator did you choose to get?
Yep, exactly the same as an 8" disk, 256K.
But you can have 1000s of disk images on a 1GB USB stick.
Next challenge is the 20MB Bernoulli.
Anthony.
-
Hi Roy,
Yep, the Uno handles the tach and timecode fine. It can get a bit temperamental and needs to be reset occasionally.
The target window is usually within 0.5s
There is only one emulator about that works flawlessly, the Gotek. Loaded with Flashfloppy. You need to get the config file, disk image, and wiring / jumper settings correctly, which took a bit of trial and error to work out.
Mine is working perfectly now - set up with a single Gotek, manually flipped between Program and Reel.
Anthony.
-
Anthony could you upload the config and image files needed to try this on a 3.5 system. Thanks
Think Roy might give this a go.
-
I would like to try both kinds of emulators, I have a 4100C here.
-
Also jealous of your work with the UNO and The SSL - I hope to try this sometime
Hi Roy,
Yep, the Uno handles the tach and timecode fine. It can get a bit temperamental and needs to be reset occasionally.
The target window is usually within 0.5s
There is only one emulator about that works flawlessly, the Gotek. Loaded with Flashfloppy. You need to get the config file, disk image, and wiring / jumper settings correctly, which took a bit of trial and error to work out.
Mine is working perfectly now - set up with a single Gotek, manually flipped between Program and Reel.
Anthony.
-
FYI, the below appears to be with the 2102 memory chips.
I switched them for the ones on the VDU card in the TR stack, and the problem seems to have gone.
Anthony
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_86181767bd2343e6b670fb782ad89e4a~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_0679730f108e47318b630ceef81bea51~mv2.jpg)
-
Hi All,
Finally I have the remaining modules in the console. These last six (1-6) are SL611V modules, and were in relatively good shape on arrival.
Still have a few things to go including picking up the last six faders, fixing the LED situation, and a couple of multiplex boards.
At this point, it is at "practical completion". What a last 12 months it has been.
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5ece6ebeaec74687be4ecb18544e7aa9~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_1f64f10366eb4a4188e180dfe57a63f2~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d33e23080966472fafb4615e535d1df3~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_e7fe5fca7349420ca91012d2533b0354~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_acf72d1f03cd44738d7c42dcd82299a1~mv2.jpg)
-
Amazing!
Good Job!
It is very kind of you sharing all these info with us!
Enjoy your SSL!!
Oihan
-
Anthony could you upload the config and image files needed to try this on a 3.5 system. Thanks
Think Roy might give this a go.
Hi Anthony
I am also very interested in this. What Gotek model did you use? There seem to be a few different ones. Also would you share the wiring?
Very impressed with all the little gadgets you make up to help keep our SSLs well supported in the future. Great job!
Cheers,
Uffe
-
Beautiful looking SSL nice work!
-
Hi Anthony,
I'm looking on GoteK site...
What model / reference did you use ?
Thanks,
Cheers,
Pascal
-
They are all the same. It is the config file and disk image files you set up on your USB stick, that defines what drive, and disk type, it emulates.
-
Have hooked up the Otari MTR-90II to the record contacts, thanks to acquiring an interface box made by George Gilbert for UB40's studio.
Needed some funky wiring on the cable, but go it sorted out.
Though the remote is still in the loop, when arming a track the machine record light illuminates and goes in to the ready state. The remote does not reflect that though.
I'd ditch the remote completely if it were not having to switch manually between the Sel/Rep, and Playback heads. Something to work on later, as I believe the SSL can switch this automatically when either in Rec/Replay mode, or Mix mode.
Task to complete now are installing the final TR multiplex cards, continuing the recap, VU lamps, LED lamps for switches....and I'm working on something else quite exciting...
Anthony.
Interface box
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a577365b2707478abb87e1dba4e76040~mv2.jpg)
DL41 Cable
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cd5cf667673148fea08473c6b7a0dce9~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3a5a884ba7e94d26b5f51cdcda14d7b3~mv2.jpg)
New project 8)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_9f605da8b7dc4806a8d27db8b27a05ad~mv2.png)
-
Always very interesting post from you anthony!
Yes our studer a80 24trk is fully controlled by the ssl g+ with ssl g cpu (very nice workflow / integration) so it should be doable. But is the sync/repro/inputs serial only or also parallel control on these modern japanese machines?
S14e and 8x adc/dac gives it away - very excited to see how and how far you take this. Was the abandonned sslmixed computer XK System details ever published anywhere? Maybe you should contact Arthur and Steve again to see if you can use some of their work and take it to the finish line. I have been thinking about undertaking such a project before but I am uncertain if there is a viable space in the market alongside Tangerine. I would say that it needs to be very open source since that is the only way these kinds of niche projects can survive. CLASP and XK ssl computer comes to mind as examples that could be kept alive if they were open sourced.
Best regards,
Uffe
-
Thanks Uffe,
You guessed it correct. I’m thinking a basic 0-5v VCA to MIDI converter will be easy, so it effectively is a MIDI controller, with the DAW MIDI out being converted back to 0-5v. All automation would be in the DAW, but driving the SSL VCAs.
Been doing a lot of research on the SSL computer. It is effectively an "off the shelf" Computer Automation Naked Mini 4, with the input, output, lights & switches etc peripheral cards done by SSL.
Anthony.
-
Perhaps I should start a new thread for this...
Spent a lot of time learning how the Mackie Control works with midi messages / track volumes.
Snooping around, I've had some success getting VCA levels through to midi and in to the DAW.
Ideally all I'm looking to do is have the DAW record the fader moves, then play them back in to the SSL VCAs.
There is still along way to go here, but....
https://youtu.be/Oeuceq1OGX8 (https://youtu.be/Oeuceq1OGX8)
-
Anthony, your skills, have me amazed!!
🙌🙌🙌🙌
Thanks for posting all the interesting things you do!!
Regards!
Oihan
-
Kudos to you Anthony, some fine work there. The SSL computer is an old dinosaur, and by todays standards primitive, but if it still works, it does the job.
-
The SSL workflow is new to me, but I really love it, and how it integrates into the control of the tape machine.
Most of the time I'm tracking to tape, then transferring it to computer for playback, whilst using the SSL computer for automation.
For me, it's bought back the enjoyment in mixing, rather than solely staring in to a computer and being chained to a keyboard / mouse all day long.
Had some great success on my SSL Mini Computer. Managed to get a block of 8 channels writing automation to the DAW. Took a lot of time to calibrate the SSL 0-5v fader, to the midi pitch-bend value (used for track volume in an MCU), but found a really neat way to do it with remapping analog input values. Also worked out how the bank shifts work.
Next job is to create multiple 8 channel blocks, and have them talking via a master micro controller to the DAW. This way I can build up an automation system dependant on how many buckets in the console. It's slow progress, but progress none the less.
Anthony.
-
Little update here.
It's switch and re-cap time...
Lot's of fun replacing the module input section switches with Alps, having to wire to the leg of the switch before inserting in to the board!
I considered it easier to remake the routing boards with the correct Alps switch footprint on them, and transplant the EDAC pins over. This is what I believe Recycled Audio does. Takes a bit of time though. Now, repeat for 250 boards....
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_dad5196de9d3497eba423688c7eb2104~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a0c68f388a00494c936ff9640298286b~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_dabeb398e81142ccae82f41f66085ba4~mv2.jpg)
Below - the new board is in the middle. Original Alps at the top, and old isostat board bottom of pic - with EDAC pins removed.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cc46401a82f94e908c5ff5e21385c3c9~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a6106ff5fd82452682c33ea18c8290e7~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_efe4214b1ae94b548ac75070377a038c~mv2.jpg)
-
good riddance Isostat!
Cheers
Alan
-
I'm with Allan!
-
I think I might write an entire piece around the SSL variations of switches, routing cards, and eq/dyn cards.
Two days in, and I'm 16 of 138 routing cards complete.
Glad to see the back of those bastard isostats!
Anthony.
-
awesome
-
More plans for 2021.
4032E .....>>..... 4048E. Expanding it up to 48 channels plus producer desk.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_81a45e197f28453982dd093c8d3703a8~mv2.jpg)
CF82E149-AMEK Channel Amplifier. An Amek Angela/M3000 mic pre hybrid.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_de7b908e080441999deafaf3a590ce03~mv2.jpg)
-
No pin numbers on the card connector artwork. One of the best things SSL ever did!
-
Ah yes, I still plan to put the numbers on. Made that mistake on the first revision of my 242 boards.
Not so much a problem for new, working cards, but essential for troubleshooting
-
I know and I said, I'd only ever do this once, but looks like the next stage is upon me.
Expanding to a 4048E.
Most frame and wiring parts are already in hand. Once done I'll be on the lookout for more modules.
Anthony.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_15a7f5b0e694421c8f0603a5874e0b2c~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_57dab8b1706e46ffab822a9d95bed020~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_43e39e45e4624f8db0dddd8a7b1ff654~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d57fab7e44314e048c1456714d33e0a5~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_81a45e197f28453982dd093c8d3703a8~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a479315fdaef4226a2d9390a7012cc62~mv2.jpg)
-
Dear god man!
-
OCD? :)
-
Lots of wiring done.
Additional patchbays for the 651 are arriving in a few hours, then the work will start on those.
I'm shifting the current 1-24 BICC looms over to service 25-48, and wiring new 1-24 looms.
New MRACs and a new power distribution as well.
Thanks Simon for all the loose parts. It's been a challenge to reconstruct this console.
Jim - I found the documentation for the DL31,32,33 and should be right now.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_3f037ee031a74a2cbe9b1b958323da3d~mv2.jpg) (https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_dea1b0b5fe7740499cc414a6ba4c5092~mv2.jpg) (https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_226303ada6e54053b43dfd2e82a6ccb8~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_8f80292e3317438d82c977319b9ffac9~mv2.jpg)
-
651 patchbays complete.
I'm going to use lacing for the incoming looms - first attempt ever, but think it will be well worth it for neatness.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_043b94ecf4d74c2fb154b6682b9c5c46~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_dfaadafdb4614ed28d0766a6d277e913~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_76d9e754bd5a4b86850fb86460434980~mv2.jpg)
-
Lacing completed. Did not take long and well worth the effort!
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_5f0639961764460cbd444d97205a2138~mv2.jpg)
-
is there an advantage of lacing over just using cable ties ?
-
Hi Matt,
It's a good point.
This is the first time I have done lacing, and I'll say that I immediately prefer it over cables ties.
The finish is much neater, and it takes less time to do. Cost wise, seems about the same.
Plus, you don't have the annoying cable tie locks snagging on anything when you draw the loom through the frame.
Jim would be the best person to give an opinion here, but in summary, it is now my preferred way to manage cables.
Anthony.
-
Hi Anthony,
thx for your opinion.
I came across lacing when I first touched some equipment from the 60s or 70s.
First thing I thought was : "hey that's the way they've done it back then".
But I see your points and would agree, especially regarding the cable tie locks that scratched my skin a lot and it doesn't look good if there's blood spread over the cables and connectors ;D 8)
What did you actually use for lacing ?
Cheers,
Matt
-
This is the lacing I used.
https://au.element14.com/pro-power/81400000/lacing-cord-0-9mm-25m-black/dp/3058669?CMP=i-55c5-00001622 (https://au.element14.com/pro-power/81400000/lacing-cord-0-9mm-25m-black/dp/3058669?CMP=i-55c5-00001622)
SSL used the flat waxed variety. Jim wrote a great piece on it here :
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=154.msg355#msg355 (http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=154.msg355#msg355)
Anthony
-
Yes, you definitely need a very good pair of Flush Cutters to snip the cable tie ends off smooth.
The other way to avoid snagging is to put Pliosil sleeving over the cable for a meter or so, then you don't need ties or lacing.
Then it is (relatively) easy to pull out just one row of patch from the middle of the bay.
-
Yes Walrus (Kevin)
If you use cable ties (black is best as SSL used!), use a pair of FULLY close cut cutters to cut them otherwise you could suffer from bloody hands!
I also agree with using cable sheathing for the patchbay to DL looms and have done a few of these from new in the past. SSL used Megamide which is a French made closer weave sheathing version and has a higher melting temperature than the more commonly used cheaper Pliosil type but is harder to find (I am still looking but you may need to order it in 50 or 100 metre lengths). I am gradually using up my stocks of this here but will get some more in at some point.
The picture shows an example of me using Megamide sheathing on a 2 x 24 way GPO patch. Notice the velcro ties to hold the service loop in place which can easily be undone.
SSL type lacing twine on the patch plus some cable ties and then, after going into two looms (one top and one bottom so the bulk of cable coming out doesn't exceed 1u ... 1.75"), the sheathing is used.
The cable is 24 pair Van Damme (x 2) but with the blue insulation cut off to lessen the weight (5kgs for 7 patchbays with 14 x 24 pair cables!) and also to make it more flexible to remove and service or change later on.
-
Yes Anthony (did you receive my DL31, 32,33 and Mrac layouts by the way, sent to you via email?).
Referring to your post about using lacing rather than cable ties.
Pulling cable tied looms through the console is not a good idea as they do snag as you stated. SSL always used the black flat waxed bigger twine for this and had large 3-4 metre wooden looming jigs with various pins in the right places for the individual patch points to make the looms for the patchbays to various channel bays (unfortunately no pictures seem to exist).
At their peek about December 1984 I think (I counted the consoles going out then) they were making 13 consoles a Month which means each one had about six long looms from the patch to the channels, yet alone the two 104 way MRAC connectors to the patch, DL's or other points.
Making 13 consoles a month, this meant over 78 big looms constructed on a looming board so, a way to do fast looming with lacing twine proved very useful.
-
Hi all,
We went in to hard lockdown 10 days ago, so the time was right to disassemble the console and do the expansion.
For what I thought would be an easy exercise, it turned in to a complete rewire of all the patch bays. There was a lot of focus on getting the wiring neat, and using lacing, which I now love!
Here's the last 10 days in a montage....
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_efcbf98a1ca14b21a5219256033908f0~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d36a5d90443f4cb7830c568029d3ef1f~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_023c769badf34e639bf79697b7fb4cb6~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cdd000d5bb634b02986a52e388d6a60e~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_a0ada9ec90b14c41851051c01b3236d4~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_782878667deb4f859eb80a779eb673bb~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_cb9ce65bf8a3492ca03a46f5952c7dc8~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4889ea35058b4a4db5d122a8ada5da33~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_35c234c564cc41918b175a1a6b8645e3~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_7ba40b183dd94d35bf9ac6515ea2670a~mv2.jpg)
-
OMG!!
Amazing job Anthony!!
You are the best!!
Waiting for computer renewal project updates!
Best regards!!
Oihan
-
Well, what has been going on?
A month later, we're still locked down, with at least two weeks to go.
If you don't know how strict it is, we can't leave the house for anything but food and medical care, and can only go 5km maximum. No one allowed over to your house, and a 9pm - 5am curfew.
Got a bit done though.
-Shifted the virtual tape in to it's own external box
-Converted my Otari so that Pin 2 is now hot (a early oddity of XLR having no standard for this)
-Added EDACs to the Otari.
-All new cabling to the computer, outboard gear etc...
-Purchased 16x SL611V modules.
-Now cleaning modules. They are the filthiest I have ever come across. Someone smoked heavily in their old studio. Lucky the electronics are all good. I pity Peter Higgs who is now deep cleaning 32 of these modules from the remainder of that console.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_4378708b5a55489bb0458523e8abd48c~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_d75deedf0ffc4093866591b5300d6ea5~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_71f413f23b3246f39c8f1a0b4569e617~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_feb6f9239a1d48c198a9fef94c7bbfd4~mv2.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/bb0400_7c3a01117ee542c5b37496f98066f4ca~mv2.jpg)
-
now that is all making life too easy :-)
cheers
Alan