SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: ilcaccillo on February 18, 2014, 07:05:14 PM
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Hello,
We have a lot of problems with the Isostat / dialistat switches in the routing section.
They get stuck at the down position, or dont move at all, or dont make contact, or make noise, its just crazy and unbearable.
Some of the routing switch boards were probably replaced in the past with new Boards containing Alps switches.
All the Alps switches are fine and work properly and smoothly.
I would like to ask you if you know the reference number for the Alps Switch in the replacement Boards?
can please someone confirm me if its the AL-03-002 - 2 Pole Changeover Switch (PCB Mount) - Latching Miniature,
on the audiomaintenance website,
http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/Push_Switches_-_PCB_Mount_.html
Also anyone has any tricks to try to bring back to life the Isostat / dialistat switches or it's game over for them?
I tried a ton of products Contacts Cleaners , Deoxit Fader F5 , Deoxit Fader Lube, even Multitask lube, and they still get stuck.
It seems that its a mechanical problem, after some years of use they just go.
Horrible switches by the way.
I took some photos ,
the Isostat / dialistat are the white ones
the Alps are the Blue/transparent
Recycle audio boards are really expensive and we need around new 250 boards with Alps switches (1000 switches),
that cost its impossible for us unfortunately.
I was thinking in other options, maybe even try to DIY a version of the PCB
What do you think?
Anyone know any other option?
thank you so much
iL
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that is the right alps switch you found there, but they are not a replacement for the old switches, the pcbs are actually different for those.
some people on the forum had good luck with an isoprop bath, but you should make sure to put some kind of lubricant back in after cleaning.
the alcohol will take all the gunk out, including the original lube. this will break your switches in the long run, even if the crackle is gone.
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that is the right alps switch you found there, but they are not a replacement for the old switches, the pcbs are actually different for those.
some people on the forum had good luck with an isoprop bath, but you should make sure to put some kind of lubricant back in after cleaning.
the alcohol will take all the gunk out, including the original lube. this will break your switches in the long run, even if the crackle is gone.
Hi,
thanks for your post.
For the old switches, the biggest problem is that some of them get stuck when pressed down, other dont latch at all, some other are stuck in the up position.
It seems more a mechanical problem from use or just bad quality, than the cleaning that isoprop alcohol could provide.
Anyway, I tried everything, Isoprop bath, re lube with different types of lubricant as I explained above, and some of them seem a bit better but none of them improved enough for regular use.
My idea now is trying to DIY a board for the Alps,
it could be something exactly the same as the Board with the Alps switches in the picture, although I had to do it locally since we cant afford to get 250 boards from Recycle audio.
This is just an ideia, please be free to comment, help or give advise.
I know the board is dual layer, and it can also be quite expensive to do anyway, but I dont know yet since I didnt ask for any quotes for the moment.
Thanks
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You might want to check iteadstudio.com (chek Open PCB link) for PCBs, I've used their services few times and have been happy with them.
Does anyone know what is name of connector pins used in board? Of course it's possible re-use them from old boards but would like to know price and availibility for new ones anyway.
-Paavo
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the pins were made by elco/edac, but afaik were special order, not sure that you can actually order them anywhere.
they might also be a bit tricky to align perfectly if you go diy.
the old style switches sometimes get stuck if they're not sitting 100% straight. have you tried reseating them? it's most likely the faceplate that keeps them down, not the switch itself.
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They get stuck because cleaning solvents remove whatever is left of the grease in the latching channel and any cleaner/lube does not have enough lube to get things working.
My 80's reconditioning routine was ultrasonic bath with weak citric acid based water bath, rinse in ultrasonic water bath, blow-out with air compressor, gentle heat drying, add LPS-1 lube to condition the latch channel and contacts. Elco pins were manipulated as necessary. Best to have switches engaged when removing/replacing. I likened this procedure to using Rogaine for thinning hair- once you start using it you have to keep using it. The cleaning was no magical procedure and had to be done every two years or so. I do not agree with the whole module dippers, Neve or SSL- I think that it does more harm than good.
90's routine was to buy new cards with ALPS from SSL!
Oughties routine was to rebuild the saved old cards using switches from Arpamax (.com)
This is still the same into the teens. They have the switches and will sell direct in bulk. Send arpamax an email with a picture.
Mike
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the pins were made by elco/edac, but afaik were special order, not sure that you can actually order them anywhere.
they might also be a bit tricky to align perfectly if you go diy.
the old style switches sometimes get stuck if they're not sitting 100% straight. have you tried reseating them? it's most likely the faceplate that keeps them down, not the switch itself.
Most all of the Isostat / dialistat switches in the board get stuck, on dont latch at all, I'm talking about aprox. 1000 switches. None of the Alps switches (some of the routing pcbs were replaced in the past) present any problem.
It's not a problem with getting stuck in the faceplate, they get stuff when I take the routing boards out and press them outside the console.
Thanks
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They get stuck because cleaning solvents remove whatever is left of the grease in the latching channel and any cleaner/lube does not have enough lube to get things working.
My 80's reconditioning routine was ultrasonic bath with weak citric acid based water bath, rinse in ultrasonic water bath, blow-out with air compressor, gentle heat drying, add LPS-1 lube to condition the latch channel and contacts. Elco pins were manipulated as necessary. Best to have switches engaged when removing/replacing. I likened this procedure to using Rogaine for thinning hair- once you start using it you have to keep using it. The cleaning was no magical procedure and had to be done every two years or so. I do not agree with the whole module dippers, Neve or SSL- I think that it does more harm than good.
90's routine was to buy new cards with ALPS from SSL!
Oughties routine was to rebuild the saved old cards using switches from Arpamax (.com)
This is still the same into the teens. They have the switches and will sell direct in bulk. Send arpamax an email with a picture.
Mike
We never used any cleanning solvents, the switches just get stuck or dont latch. Most all of the old switches are in this condition, and I posted above it's around 1000 switches, all the white Isostat / dialistat.
I'm using cleaning solvents and lube, on some boards that I took from the console to see what could be the best method to fix them, or if it was possible to fix them at all.
It was more for research.
Mike, thank you so much for the tip on Arpamax switches, that is great since, if they worked we would not need new boards, just new swicthes for the old boards.
I will contact them. Thank you so much
regards
iL
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or like this?
Notice an ALPS switch installed in the old ITT/Dialastat position. The card in front is the "new" "ALPS ready" card from SSL.
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Woww,
that seems like a great idea jwhmca,
is it from your console?
How was it done?
Thank You
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ALPS Part number SPUJ193700
It is a 4 pole. You need a 4 pole to get the length.
Cut the front set of legs off, they won't be used.
The back legs need to be bent out to fit in the holes. It's pretty easy and works perfect.
What I do is center the center pin over the middle of the holes in the card. Then Lay the pins flat.. then spread them a little forward/backwards to reach the hole they are next to...
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Great fit!
What do you use to build-out the plungers to fit the old caps?
Mike
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They fit Stock!!!
**EDIT** I think they are a tiny bit shorted or longer than the originals... but, DANG! Work fine... buy some and try it.
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Applauding jwhmca - great stuff! Reminds me to speak to Mattia about an idea (section with links for rare spares/replacement parts).
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Thanks guys!
Necessity is the mother of invention... I got so sick of being told "Sorry, it's NLA"!!!
Still buy and try please!!!
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You could also replace the caps, with the newer type:
http://www.recycledaudio.co.uk/spares/grey-routing/
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Thank you so much jwhmca,
that is a great solution.
I will order some switches and put it into practice.
Any tips for desoldering the old switches without damaging the OCB tracks?
Thanks
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The way I do it is to hold the board upright in a vice, then while heating the pin (on the solder side) with the iron, I use a small pair of cutters (gently!) to hold and then pull the pin out of the switch from the opposite side. Once all the pins are out and the switch bank gone, I use a solder sucker to clear out the holes ready for the new switch.
The trick is not to heat the pin so much that the track lifts, but enough so that the plastic of the switch melts enough to easily pull out the pin.
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Great find!!! ;) Congratz!! This is what this community is all about!
*clap clap* :)
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I know this is kinda spendy, but it's the best tool I have ever used... Desoldering becomes a pleasure...
http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/sc7000.html
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This one is cheaper... but almost the same.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-808-KIT-Desoldering-Kit-with-808-Gun-120-VAC/271338131301?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20232%26meid%3D5111410984234881988%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D8938%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D321176042597
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Nice work jwhmca! I second the 808, after you hit it once with the desolder tool, bust off any stuck pins with a little screwdriver,
if they don't come off easy, they need to be desoldered again with a gentle tiny side to side movements, traces get fucked with too
much heat and movement or force if the top traces are not free from switch pins, when you pull off the switch. don't even bother
with a hakko 808 or better, you will just cost everybody way more in the end!
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Great info here! Anyone know a replacement for the ABC bus routing switches in the SL611S stereo modules? They appear to be larger than the 1-32 bus switches.
Thanks
James
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jwhmca, you saved the day! We tried your workarround with a few routing cards, but ended up replacing all 1280 switches on out 4k E. It takes a few minutes...
Thanks again jwhmca!
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That's Awesome! How long did it take to do all of them???
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We just finished soldering 1280 of these new switches jwhmca are talking about. It took 9, 12 hr. days..Now the routing cards are just like new and working great!. Thanks jwhmca!