SSlmixed.com Forum
User discussion => Mixing and Recording Techniques on SSL boards => Topic started by: marcmozart on November 07, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
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My main Buss Output is always too "hot" for my converter inputs (SSL MADI Alpha Links). I feel I'm loosing out on some nice punch as the console has way more headroom than the convertors can take. What to do?
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Patch on your output a dual-preamp that you can use to trim the input of the preamp / output of the console. A BEA is very pleasant for this. Also it will help you level you stereo balance if the output of the console is somewhat shifting to one side.
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Where do you take your feed from?
Mattia.
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Patching the main output L and R - the one thats parallel to all the 2Track Tape Recorder Outs - into a pair of my converter inputs.
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Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level! :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading..... ??
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My console is not anywhere near clipping when I'm inside the SSL Alpha Links range. Shows how awesome the mix buss is.
I have G+ cards in the centre section (mix/compressor/output-cards), not sure if these have more dynamic than earlier ones.
I'll do some testing with oscillator tones from the DAW to see where the desk really starts clipping in a not so nice way. Maybe you're right and I should stay within the 22dBu.
Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level! :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading..... ??
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Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?
My console is not anywhere near clipping when I'm inside the SSL Alpha Links range. Shows how awesome the mix buss is.
I have G+ cards in the centre section (mix/compressor/output-cards), not sure if these have more dynamic than earlier ones.
I'll do some testing with oscillator tones from the DAW to see where the desk really starts clipping in a not so nice way. Maybe you're right and I should stay within the 22dBu.
Spec of the SSL Alpha Link says Max input is 22dBu, so yes, at clipping, the desk will be giving more out than the Alpha can take. But we are then talking about a very hot level! :o
I would not have thought you are going to lose any punch if you lower your overall mix by a few dB to stop the Alpha overloading..... ??
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Interestingly, Bob Clearmountain had the buss compressor of his G+ modified so that the Gain Makeup had a range from -5dB to +5dB, instead of standard 0dB to +15dB - maybe this is the best onboard option.
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=260.0
I just don't like the idea to have another outboard patched in after JUST to get the level lower. CLA for example has a Pultec and a Focusrite Red Compressor following, these have both options to fine-tune the label to the 2-Track A/D.
Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?
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Just curious where you are finding the sweet spot on the desk? How hot are you hitting the Quad Buss? How hot are you hitting the line inputs of the channels?
If anybody else would like to chime in, I'd love to see where you have found the sweet spot to be on 4000G.
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Isn't that the same thing?! CLA is patching outboard on his 2-bus that enables him to trim the final output.;)
Interestingly, Bob Clearmountain had the buss compressor of his G+ modified so that the Gain Makeup had a range from -5dB to +5dB, instead of standard 0dB to +15dB - maybe this is the best onboard option.
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=260.0
I just don't like the idea to have another outboard patched in after JUST to get the level lower. CLA for example has a Pultec and a Focusrite Red Compressor following, these have both options to fine-tune the label to the 2-Track A/D.
Can't you patch something at the console's main 2-bus (before monitor out or tape out)?
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this is where a simple pad is a good idea. Drops the actual output level to what you want to drive the AD with, no loss in S/N, keeps the overload point in control, no additional active circuitry, etc.
Alan
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So how hard are you guys hitting the 2 bus on the 4000?
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It seems that at least my transients are easily louder than +22dBu all the time. And there is always a few dB space before it starts distorting. As I said above, I always have to back off to not overload my converters.
So how hard are you guys hitting the 2 bus on the 4000?
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use your maxipads! 8)
(http://www.karmamics.com/shop/images/D/XLR%20Pad%20Angled%20on%20Gray%20XXX.jpg)
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I dip the master fader, just a little when needed.
This is trimming the scale of the master VCA's then passing the unbalanced compressor/VCA out to the 025 card for balancing (this is the point it connects to the converters)
I'm tapping the compressor (2dB max) at 2:1 with no gain make-up
Also did a suggested lineup from a Gearslutz thread (but can't find the thread) for my '2 track inputs' on the Digidesign 192.
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So how hard are you guys hitting the 2 bus on the 4000?
I find the console sound best when pushing the mixbus pretty hot (even to hot for the quad compressor) and then lower the master so the ouptut stays between 0 and +2
...so I always end up with the master between -10 to -12,
I think if you push the output too hot, like +3 and beyond it starts to flatten the sound and get really mish mash`ìsh :)
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Thanks for all the ideas!
I experimented a bit and a solution that works for me is using the VCA Trim and backing off about 6 dB.
Probably similar to using the Master-Fader doing the same thing.
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Using VCA trim, you'll not hit the summing so hard. (this maybe a bad thing) Trimming the Master fader should keep the vibe of the mix intact.
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Thanks, I keep learning every day! :-)
Using VCA trim, you'll not hit the summing so hard. (this maybe a bad thing) Trimming the Master fader should keep the vibe of the mix intact.
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I wouldnt use the Line trims for this, or at all :) just gets messy with recalls, if you stay around 0 or slightly above on the master it shouldnt clip your converters
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Not the line trims, the VCA trim on the centre section.
I wouldnt use the Line trims for this, or at all :) just gets messy with recalls, if you stay around 0 or slightly above on the master it shouldnt clip your converters
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Not the line trims, the VCA trim on the centre section. I wouldnt use the Line trims for this, or at all :) just gets messy with recalls, if you stay around 0 or slightly above on the master it shouldnt clip your converters
Ah oh sorry, must have read a little to fast, I thought it sounded a litte weird hehe :) can I ask how hard have you pushed the consoles output to get clipping in the DAW?
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You just need some good passive 600/600 ohm attenuators.
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well, I would say attenuators in general, they could be 1K, 5K or 600 ohm. Shouldn't matter too much. But you should put them at the input to the receiver (ie recording device) so that the lo-Z output of the board drives the cable.
Alan
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First instinct is start your mixes with your master fader backed off a few db.
Also, do you have absolutely nothing on your 2-buss? Nothing outboard between console and converters? It's fairly standard these days to touch your 2-buss with a little light compression for glue or a touch of eq for overall vibe. I'm not talking about stepping on the Mastering Engineers territory...nor am I telling you that this step is necessary. I was just asking. So, if you are comfortable, and have no desire for additional processing before your A/D, Master Fader is your answer! Many of us rely on the Master Fader from time to time for some level taming.
I run my mix through various things pre converter. One move is a pair of vintage 1073's line in and have fader trim outputs to help balance your L/R...if needed. This is a nice mojo move. There are tons of "Neve type" amps these days if you want some extra voodoo with level control. Or pick any other wonderful flavors of line amps, super clean to super signature sounding. Just a thought.
I hit my SSL pretty good. My output meters aren't pegged, but they are pretty hot. That's where a good rock mix comes alive on an old SSL.
Good luck!
JJ