SSlmixed.com Forum

Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: marcmozart on March 16, 2013, 08:51:29 PM

Title: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on March 16, 2013, 08:51:29 PM
Dear Friends,

I'm starting this new thread to seek advice on various issues I will have to deal with in the next few days/weeks. My console is up and running (with a few exceptions, more later!) and I did the first few mixes this week.

As you might know I started another thread about my G-Series Console which will be more like a photo documentation of the refurb and install.
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=284.0

Pic from today...
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting / Crosstalk Echo Send 1-4 -> Cue Stereo
Post by: marcmozart on March 16, 2013, 08:56:55 PM
Problem: I get crosstalk from the Echo Sends 1-4 to the Cue Stereo Send. The Echo Sends 1-4 deliver a very clear and consistent signal on all channels. However, I get random crosstalk into the Cue Stereo Send. Any ideas?
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting
Post by: sintech on March 16, 2013, 09:39:14 PM
Try swapping the two Cue Mix Amp cards over, they're identical, see if the crosstalk issue moves

The circuit is passive to the 651, so not much to go wrong. All the amps share the same 0v so could be a bad cap
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting
Post by: marcmozart on March 16, 2013, 10:08:53 PM
Here's one I solved myself...

Problem: Level for LEFT BUS from Channels in Bucket 1-8 dropped by a few dB.

Solution: Removed and Cleaned the little ribbon cable in the pic below with Isopropyl-Alcohol. After re-install, problem was solved.

I wonder if these ribbons are a common source for problems? I'll certainly keep them in mind if I see any levels drop.

First pic: Ribbon Cable used in Lower Bus Card
Second pic: the one that's missing on this pic was the source of the problem
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting
Post by: Artur D'Assumpção on March 17, 2013, 12:41:24 PM
Thanks for the detailed troubleshooting journal. This is indeed very useful!

I myself am installing soon a SSL 6048G and all this info will be a gem! :D

By the way, what are the EQs on your console? Black 242 throughout the entire console?! :D

Cheers,

Arthur
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series / EQs 292 pink vs. 242 black
Post by: marcmozart on March 17, 2013, 09:34:22 PM
Thanks for the kind words! Please post about your console as well and share your experiences.
My console has 292 G-Series EQs on all channels. They are useful for a lot of things, but I want to mix in some Black 242 EQs, and as I was reading in this thread, thats your plan as well. So perhaps we can work together on this. http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=248.0

I guess I'll start mixing in 4 or 8 black 242 E-Series EQs to find out where to use them and where not.

I also plan to get my head around recapping entire channels. Another big topic... (list of required caps and where to buy them!).

Thanks for the detailed troubleshooting journal. This is indeed very useful!

I myself am installing soon a SSL 6048G and all this info will be a gem! :D

By the way, what are the EQs on your console? Black 242 throughout the entire console?! :D

Cheers,

Arthur
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: Artur D'Assumpção on March 20, 2013, 01:08:08 PM
Hi Marc,

Of course I will make a fully detailed photo journal about the SSL commissioning.

My SSL is an SSL 6048 G from 1998. It's in mint condition, both working and cosmetic! which is great! :D

Console characteristics:

* Standard channel configuration
* EQs are all 292 Cards (Pink)
* Large keyboard center section
* All illumination is LED (there are no bulbs across the entire console)
* VU meters
* VCA Automation (no ultimation)
* Center section screen was replaced for a TFT screen
* Console was all recapped and the PSUs rebuilt (it has plus 2 extra PSUs)
* RH patchbay
* LH Production bay

I'm also thinking in change at least a bucket of channels with 242 black EQs. If you start upgrading your EQs before me, please post all your process on my thread ok? It would be nice to have this procedure well documented since it's something all SSL owners would love to have! :D

I don't have it yet commissioned, but as soon as I have it (around August) I'll start covering the EQ upgrade procedure.

Cheers,

Artur

Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: perfectsnd on May 16, 2013, 11:15:56 PM
Keep me posted also. I have all 292 EQs in my console and I would like to get a bunch of 242s.

-Joe
Title: Trouble Shooting Journal: VCA Fader to mix buss: no sound
Post by: marcmozart on July 17, 2013, 06:11:35 PM
PROBLEM: On one of my channels the VCA Fader doesn't pass audio to the mix-buss. I can float the VCA to the Routing Matrix and it works, but thats about it.

Solution: simply the connector to the Film Pan Card was loose - the VCA Fader-signal when going through the mix buss (NOT through routing matrix when "floated").
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: sintech on July 17, 2013, 06:40:52 PM
Hi Marc,

is your Group card 82294? I'm looking at multiple drawings here, so it's hard to give you the IC number.. but my first change would be, IC14 on the group card.

This is the Quad pan buffer, after this IC it's all passive to the Mix busses, so it's working back from this point.

Also, it could be a logic fault not activating the Jfet switching correctly.

If you swap the Group cards over on a pair of modules, and see what happens.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: sintech on July 17, 2013, 07:06:54 PM
You could also scope pin 44 on the group card, this is the output of IC 14 (Quad Pan Buffer) to the Quad buss, if signal is not present, I bet it's the CMOS Logic controlling JFET RG14.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: sintech on July 18, 2013, 12:17:20 AM
If you have Film Pan cards, like your other post suggests.. you'll need to look at the op-amps and logic chips on that board also.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: unitedreco on July 18, 2013, 03:08:27 AM
Hi Marc

You solve the aux send issue? also dont forget to check up top at the cue aux send master knob....on the 651... the vca fader check the thumbwheel rotate it , sometimes dirt gets in there and itll shut that fader down...swap faders with one that works first before you start diggin in to electrical...its amazing what dirt and grime can do, exercise all the pots and switches on that channel. Troubleshoot first dig in later youll find most little issues are not electrical, well they are but not to the point you need to whip out the solder gun right away. Lost a few channels once after they didnt see use, turned out to be dirty phase switch and filter switch...moved em around and all is well hope you understand what im talking about.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on July 18, 2013, 10:12:33 AM
Hi Marc

You solve the aux send issue? also dont forget to check up top at the cue aux send master knob....on the 651... the vca fader check the thumbwheel rotate it , sometimes dirt gets in there and itll shut that fader down...swap faders with one that works first before you start diggin in to electrical...its amazing what dirt and grime can do, exercise all the pots and switches on that channel. Troubleshoot first dig in later youll find most little issues are not electrical, well they are but not to the point you need to whip out the solder gun right away. Lost a few channels once after they didnt see use, turned out to be dirty phase switch and filter switch...moved em around and all is well hope you understand what im talking about.

Thanks - will definitely try all this before going too technical...
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: unitedreco on July 18, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
Marc

Do the sweep on the pots and switches with the fader up at 0 passing some kind of signal thru it, especially if its a switch issue, dont be to aggressive sometimes just touching a switch a little bit will tell you whats going on, push it slow then fast . If you hear any sort of signal cut in and out that switch or pot is your culprit. There are no common ones to point to, so you should check all. Goodluck!!
Title: Crackling Noise on a Summing Buss
Post by: marcmozart on August 20, 2013, 11:26:35 PM
Problem: crackling noise on the Centre Bus, really loud, reduces Noise to Signal Ratio to 40dB.

Solution: I turned every single bucket of channels off, until the noise was gone. The noise came from my first bucket of channels 1 - 8. I started removing Channel 1, then switched the bucket on again - noise was still there. Continued removing channels until I found Channel 5 was the source of the Noise.

After removing that channel I still noticed some "antistatic" crackling in the LF and Surround Busses. Lower than the noise from Channel 5, but still there.

What I found really interesting was, that if I turned all buckets off, but Master Section still on, I still had this noise on the monitors.
So I decided to go trough the whole console, removing all channels. I found 3 more channels that induced some noise into the different summing busses. I found them with the buckets switched off! I also switched the Float Button on all channels.

So the problem is now solved by removing a total of 4 channels. Will have to find out at another time what the problems of these channels are. Will probably swap some cards, perhaps - as sintech suggested previously - look at the Film Pan Card and also the Quad Pan Buffer on the Group Card (IC 14) and the CMOS Logic Chip that is controlling  JFET RG14.

Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on August 20, 2013, 11:30:09 PM
Yeah! I now have about 10 Channels that have one or more problems attached. I guess it's soon time to swap some cards between them and recap/rechip the ones that cause problems.
Few switches as well, like Channel Insert, EQ Split Switch and EQ and Compressor Switches.

First have to finish about 30 mixes though...
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: unitedreco on August 23, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
crackling static sound as if the audio is being impeded from passing thru or just plain noisy channels?  Ive found static and issues like that to be from switches and pots ...not from caps....loss of bottom end ? then look at caps.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on August 23, 2013, 09:48:10 PM
It's the 281 Film Panning MK2 Cards - started a new thread about these to get input:

http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=415.0

They need to be reworked.
Title: G-Series 292 EQ makes noise (self-oscillating?)
Post by: marcmozart on April 02, 2014, 09:14:50 PM
Problem: in two of my channels, the 292 G-Series EQs make an "interesting" noise. I only appears when the EQ is switched in, and only after the console is switched on for a while (after about an hour).

The channels in which this happens, are fully recapped, and when I swap out the EQ card, the behaviour doesn't change - I still get the same noises, from a different EQ card.

Today I have recorded the noise - you can download an mp3 here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vik3i5fzpo88da3/G292EQnoise.mp3

Ideas?  8)
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal / Regulator Cards recapped
Post by: marcmozart on April 27, 2014, 01:26:07 AM
Regulator Cards recapped (before they make trouble...) - look here:
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=580.0
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on May 30, 2014, 07:38:01 PM
If you have Film Pan cards, like your other post suggests.. you'll need to look at the op-amps and logic chips on that board also.

Correct on this one - it was simply a loose connector to the Film Pan Card. Easy!
Title: Blown Pico Fuse - what replacement to order?
Post by: marcmozart on May 31, 2014, 11:06:32 PM
Problem: blown pico fuse on a channel - can you guys help ordering the correct replacement?

Service Manual shows 2A Fuse (Pico-Fuse?) across +18 and -18 inputs.

Mouser.com gives me a wide range of choices:
http://de.mouser.com/Circuit-Protection/Fuses/Fuses-with-Leads-Through-Hole/_/N-ba8hh?P=1z0x8giZ1z0z33zZ1yycde2Z1z0z819&Keyword=pico+fuse+2A&FS=True
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: walrus on June 01, 2014, 01:11:13 AM
I would have thought the first one would be fine.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: michaeldtech on June 01, 2014, 02:15:53 PM
I think that rather than a thread this should be a separate forum with separate topics.  At the least create separate topics.  On the pico fuses I continued filtering and got this (http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/0251002PAT1L/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujzCB4Me5DPQb4kbALCLN0YFonUhlyDh0YMCe%2fbQnyA3w%3d%3d)

Mike
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on June 01, 2014, 02:40:13 PM
I think that rather than a thread this should be a separate forum with separate topics.  At the least create separate topics.  On the pico fuses I continued filtering and got this (http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/0251002PAT1L/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujzCB4Me5DPQb4kbALCLN0YFonUhlyDh0YMCe%2fbQnyA3w%3d%3d)

Mike

Thanks Mike!
I think we should create a central place where we collect links to replacement parts. Thats why I have started including links in my posts.
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: walrus on June 01, 2014, 07:16:50 PM
  On the pico fuses I continued filtering and got this (http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Littelfuse/0251002PAT1L/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujzCB4Me5DPQb4kbALCLN0YFonUhlyDh0YMCe%2fbQnyA3w%3d%3d)

Mike
What is the difference between that and the one I suggested? Apart from being more expensive...... ???
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: marcmozart on June 01, 2014, 08:18:14 PM
Side by side-comparison  8)

(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/picofuses_zps143d11f9.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/picofuses_zps143d11f9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: sintech on June 01, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
I wouldn't go for the fast acting version
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: walrus on June 02, 2014, 12:14:29 AM
So, no difference then Marc!  ;D
They both seem to be Fast Acting from their data sheets.

Only thing I can find is their different methods of bulk packing....
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: sintech on June 02, 2014, 11:44:21 AM
The Picos fitted by SSL are manufactured by Wickmann
Title: Re: SSL 4000 G-Series Trouble Shooting Journal
Post by: michaeldtech on June 03, 2014, 01:03:43 PM
The case sizes are different unless it is a typo where the two dimensions are reversed.  One is a tube in line with the leads and the other is perpendicular.  I would go with the tube, which is the cheaper one.  Check the data sheet just to make sure.
Not sure if there even is a slo blo version of those.  Too many darn parts out there!  I stopped getting Mouser catalogs because they were thicker than my grip. . .
Mike