Author Topic: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.  (Read 326 times)

Timetravel

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Hello to the nice community here, which made the decision and a lifetime dream of having an SSL4K, a reality :)
Being said, i found here the kinda help that would give me the courage to not step back, being in the troubled time we are living, and in the middle of a exausting studio construction jorney.
This console, is a mixed configuration of 48 frame, 40 loaded E and G channels, with an G center section added at some point during its life.
It happened that this might be the console that an swiss engineer, called Greg Dubois, talked about with Jim Williams about 26 cards mods, capacitor value change and some other tweaks, mentioned in a thread here from Marc Mozart.
Long story short, the console came with a remote patch bay, a ton of cables which connected with DL conectors hanging from the back of the console, maybe a custom job done at studio Davon in Paris.
The console had no conector pannel, which we should laser cut and some side panels that we needed to cut for the production of producer bay and patch bucket.
The first thing that confused me after i switched it on, was that none of the quad busses worked. No sound in the output, but the external to monitors and some aux routing, brought some kind of relif.
Sure it was not the kind of sound i expected to hear. It suffered a lot of distorsion and level fluctuations, which made me clear that the baby was having nightmares.
I will post my adventure here, in the hope to find any help when the forest becomes very dark, and to help others in need with my findings. Here some pics of the console after arrival. More on to the details later.
Ps: found that i should resize the photos before upload. Later on that
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 10:24:39 AM by Timetravel »

horizonsound

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 01:07:50 AM »
Hey Erjon, good to see you on the forum.

If you want to post photos, I find it easiest to upload them to a location on the web, then link it in with the picture button when writing a reply.

If you include the statement "width=500"     {img width=500} your http link to the photo here {/img}       it will then resize it to you.

A lot of directly attached photos were lost here a few years back, after a hack.

Anthony.

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2021, 01:25:23 AM »
Hi Anthony. Glad to find you on the Forum. Yes, im aware of the horrible damage from the hacker attack some years back, which turned a lot of valuable posts useless. I find your idea of an external server great. I will give it a try as soon as i find a switable service.
Thanks
Erjon.

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2021, 10:25:58 AM »
Here some pics attached finally :)


« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 10:34:59 AM by Timetravel »

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2021, 05:31:05 PM »
First, we ripped it from channels, faders, arm rest, legs, and top rest in order to prepare it for the chasis extension.



« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 05:32:46 PM by Timetravel »

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2021, 06:49:03 PM »
Then we started preparing new rails for the chasis. New measure for producer and patch bay buckets adition.
Im well equipet for this stage, as i have a full sized shop with different metalworking machines, like saws, gas welders, lathes and all the little tools.
Normally, i converted everything to european threds, as originally it was the British system, which screws are unavailable in my country.
All is finished using 8mm for the ends, and 6mm for the L brackets, cuted in a 3.5 mm thick, 80x40 stud.





gregdubuis

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2021, 04:44:25 PM »
Dear Erjon,

Happy to see the lady in good shape !

Just to let you know, it's Dubuis not Dubois and it's Studio Davout not Davon.

You are right, Davout did a lot of custom work on this one, but it was totally working.
About the issue on the Quad Bus, have you plugged the automation bypass terminaison (if not, it's normal that you have no sound).

When she lived in the studio, she was in a really good shape except the automation and some switches that need to be changed (try to use Alps version, better than the Isostat).

Whish you all the best with this lady, she made a lot of number one in France and Switzerland.

Best regards,
Greg

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2021, 10:26:05 PM »
Dear Erjon,

Happy to see the lady in good shape !

Just to let you know, it's Dubuis not Dubois and it's Studio Davout not Davon.

You are right, Davout did a lot of custom work on this one, but it was totally working.
About the issue on the Quad Bus, have you plugged the automation bypass terminaison (if not, it's normal that you have no sound).
When she lived in the studio, she was in a really good shape except the automation and some switches that need to be changed (try to use Alps version, better than the Isostat).

Whish you all the best with this lady, she made a lot of number one in France and Switzerland.

Best regards,
Greg
Hello Greg. Glad to see you are here.
Yeep, sory for the names, but i just had ocassionally read them online and couldnt remember very well.
So im right in my intuition that this is the console, and that you have worked a lot with it :)
Are you aware of this? http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=261.0
The Roedersteins are not n the 26 vca cards so i assume you changed them, but the LM are still there...
As per the computer bypass termination, they was already pluged when the console come in, so it was not so simple. I dont know if you used this console till the last days in the studio, but a lot of maintenance need to be done. Maybe this is from the warehowse months, i dont know.
I have a lot of questions, but depending on your time, it would been helpful, for the others that read here, to answer some.
The 26 cards, for example had the corroded rubber resistor legs in the solder side. The solder was terribly hardened and nonconductive, some 5534 was not working, and a lot of bypass capacitors (28 monitor buffer card for example) simply disintegrated with a slight pull.
Generally, the console was well maintained, but the switches are a big issue, to the point that half of the channels pass audio. In a lot of not working channels, the signal was stuck in insert or compressor in buttons, or even the split button. Once pressed, the sound will not return anymore, no matter what you do and the working on it.
I was able to have some sound after i changed some resistors, diodes and transistors like Bc212LB and J112 in the 82e24 card where it seems that its all the culprit. But i still has not repaired it fully because of the limited availability of parts in my country. Meanwhile, im aranging an order at Farnell with all i need.
My biggest concern still remains the computer, which, i found that a terrible mistake happened. Someone (maybe the Davout techie) has forgotten to plug the 120 volt computer top fans, so it may have suffered extreme temperatures to the point that might be irreparable.
This thing happened, because the 120 volt output of the computer power supply, was occupied by the changeover unit, which should have been added when the console became 48 channels.
This could have been avoided with the addition af a small 220/110 transformer just for the fans.

I dont know at this point if you can help me where to focus for the computer repair first, as i have no video on the monitor (an external monitor connected directly in the computer pannel) even though seems like the disc is readed in the floppy, and a red light flicks in sync with the floppy reading, in the processor card.
I still dont have a clear idea if i should reccap all channels, or master section, or all of them imediately.
Any memory from where was the last time changed?
Wishing you all the best, i hope your lady is still in good hands :))
Regards, Erjon.

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2021, 05:56:17 PM »
Designed the side panel which took over 30 hours of shape and hole matching. A nightmare. Still at the end some holes didnt match by 0,5-1mm, but it was not important. We used larger screws because cant find the original rails, and the substitutes from the local market has larger holes
Laser cut the side and connectors pannel and mounted the buckets.
Start depinning and over 3500 point to point soldering which took nearly 10 days of every day work.










« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 06:10:32 PM by Timetravel »

Timetravel

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2021, 06:07:56 PM »
I found the best tool for depinning, is this pin from an airgun nail. Very sturdy and finished all the job of depining around 70 DLís with only one tip. The original one (previous owners was so kind to give me the depin and crimp tool) broke in the first 20 DLís


jimlfixit

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Mixed E/G 4048: de pinning DL's
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2021, 08:09:09 PM »
Hi Timetravel
Interesting comment about using a nail gun pin for de-pinning DL's but I notice you have just de-pinned the console DL sockets which are much easier as they don't have moving parts like the plugs, which are harder to do (I have done many hundreds over the a few decades).
I have a post on here about de-pinning DL plugs so, you may wish to see that on the wiring menu (I am the moderator for that).
Also, contact me if you need any advice on the SSL console wiring plus I know about all the screw fixings used back then (another of my posts on here).
I worked at SSL from 1980-87, near the beginning, and also supply DL plugs, pins and backshells to the UK and Europe if you need some plus, I construct various DL looms as well.
Contact me via my Facebook page, which also has examples of my wiring.
Good luck with your console rebuild and I can send you a blank SSL 96 way DL layout for wiring purposes if you would like it.
Regards from Jim Lassen in the UK

gregdubuis

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Re: The jorney of a mixed E/G 4048 and the troublesome start.
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2021, 09:21:53 PM »
Dear Erjon,

Happy to see the lady in good shape !

Just to let you know, it's Dubuis not Dubois and it's Studio Davout not Davon.

You are right, Davout did a lot of custom work on this one, but it was totally working.
About the issue on the Quad Bus, have you plugged the automation bypass terminaison (if not, it's normal that you have no sound).
When she lived in the studio, she was in a really good shape except the automation and some switches that need to be changed (try to use Alps version, better than the Isostat).

Whish you all the best with this lady, she made a lot of number one in France and Switzerland.

Best regards,
Greg
Hello Greg. Glad to see you are here.
Yeep, sory for the names, but i just had ocassionally read them online and couldnt remember very well.
So im right in my intuition that this is the console, and that you have worked a lot with it :)
Are you aware of this? http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=261.0
The Roedersteins are not n the 26 vca cards so i assume you changed them, but the LM are still there...
As per the computer bypass termination, they was already pluged when the console come in, so it was not so simple. I dont know if you used this console till the last days in the studio, but a lot of maintenance need to be done. Maybe this is from the warehowse months, i dont know.
I have a lot of questions, but depending on your time, it would been helpful, for the others that read here, to answer some.
The 26 cards, for example had the corroded rubber resistor legs in the solder side. The solder was terribly hardened and nonconductive, some 5534 was not working, and a lot of bypass capacitors (28 monitor buffer card for example) simply disintegrated with a slight pull.
Generally, the console was well maintained, but the switches are a big issue, to the point that half of the channels pass audio. In a lot of not working channels, the signal was stuck in insert or compressor in buttons, or even the split button. Once pressed, the sound will not return anymore, no matter what you do and the working on it.
I was able to have some sound after i changed some resistors, diodes and transistors like Bc212LB and J112 in the 82e24 card where it seems that its all the culprit. But i still has not repaired it fully because of the limited availability of parts in my country. Meanwhile, im aranging an order at Farnell with all i need.
My biggest concern still remains the computer, which, i found that a terrible mistake happened. Someone (maybe the Davout techie) has forgotten to plug the 120 volt computer top fans, so it may have suffered extreme temperatures to the point that might be irreparable.
This thing happened, because the 120 volt output of the computer power supply, was occupied by the changeover unit, which should have been added when the console became 48 channels.
This could have been avoided with the addition af a small 220/110 transformer just for the fans.

I dont know at this point if you can help me where to focus for the computer repair first, as i have no video on the monitor (an external monitor connected directly in the computer pannel) even though seems like the disc is readed in the floppy, and a red light flicks in sync with the floppy reading, in the processor card.
I still dont have a clear idea if i should reccap all channels, or master section, or all of them imediately.
Any memory from where was the last time changed?
Wishing you all the best, i hope your lady is still in good hands :))
Regards, Erjon.

Dear Erjon,

Congratulation for all the good work !!!

No problem for the spelling issue, I was just clarifying.
Yes I know for the exchange between Jim and me, long time ago...

The console was sent to you with a maintenance workbook, normally you should find all the work done (and dates) on this console.
As far as I know, Davout did all the custom mods under the supervision of SSL and the computer worked a long time after the installation.
They had only one issue with the "memory card" that was sent to SSL, then a couple of year later the computer stop booting again and I didn't want to fix it (because I hate this computer to be totally honest).

I never done the modifications suggested by Jim because of the financial aspect (the studio owner didn't want to cover this investment).

I was sure that the terminaisons was removed before the moving of the console (strange).

Corroded rubber is a well known issue unfortunately, some were changed but not all of them.
I changed all the capacitors and the IC on the main QUAD cards (the 4 cards, I don't remember exactly the date but you will find in the maintenance workbook).
On the channels side, I changed some of the capacitors, not all of them (financial issue again) so I can suggest you to start here.
I changed a lot of switches as well but this is one of the main issue of the Isostat... This is why I suggested you to change to Alps before.
I have also changed some of the Bc212 and J112, Farnell or Mouser are very good to find all the parts you need.

For the computer, I'm really sorry (it was sold like that) but you need to find someone who is really knowledgeable about it (which is not me as you understood).

It seems that you are a really good guy and I'm sure you will give this lady a brand new you life.
I wish you all the best for the project and if I can help, I will do it.

Best regards,
Greg
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 09:29:15 PM by gregdubuis »

Timetravel

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Re: Mixed E/G 4048: de pinning DL's
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2021, 07:04:48 PM »
Hi Timetravel
Interesting comment about using a nail gun pin for de-pinning DL's but I notice you have just de-pinned the console DL sockets which are much easier as they don't have moving parts like the plugs, which are harder to do (I have done many hundreds over the a few decades).
Hi Jim. I know perfectly who you are :)
Your expertise has helped me till now, even i wasnít active in the forum.
I should tell you that the airgun pin worked wanders even in the plugs. Same ease of operation. And the good part of it, was that it fitted perfectly to the original cannon handle wich tips was changeable with a miniature allen screw.
About the dl connection scheme, every help is apresciated in the very moment that i am now.
I will keep in mind all of your exelent services for the customers when i will be in need.
Regards
Erjon 🤘🏼