SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: Matt Sartori on May 20, 2019, 12:01:07 PM
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is anyone thinking of reverse engineering these?
Matt Sartori
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I was thinking about it, and using Sifam AL29WF meters. Status LEDs could be tricky.
Do you have the height of the 8 bank meter panel plate? My guess is 163mm high (and 325mm wide).
Anthony.
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I was thinking about it, and using Sifam AL29WF meters. Status LEDs could be tricky.
Do you have the height of the 8 bank meter panel plate? My guess is 163mm high (and 325mm wide).
Anthony.
I am going to have a look at the ones I have but it might take a bit!
Matt Sartori
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I managed to pick up 4 Sifam R22AF meters yesterday. The AL29WF meters are 1.8mm wider and would require some modification to get them to fit 4 wide across a 325mm wide bucket.
The R22AF meters are 81mm wide across the bezel, which give only 1mm total clearance.
These are generic ones i bought, so do not have the status LEDs. However I may have a clever solution up my sleeve ....
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I managed to pick up 4 Sifam R22AF meters yesterday. The AL29WF meters are 1.8mm wider and would require some modification to get them to fit 4 wide across a 325mm wide bucket.
The R22AF meters are 81mm wide across the bezel, which give only 1mm total clearance.
These are generic ones i bought, so do not have the status LEDs. However I may have a clever solution up my sleeve ....
are the original not available any more? do you know what model they are/were?
Matt
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The originals were Sifam R22AF model. Probably a special run with the status LEDs.
All info seems to suggest they are discontinued, and replaced with the AL29WF, though dimensionally they are not compatible. I confirmed, as I have the AL29WF in my Hairballaudio 1176.
I may be able to make a custom 3D printed bezel to make them fit, but needless to say, it’s a bit annoying.
The last SSL that used the R22AF looks like the Axiom, in it's master section only.
Anthony.
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The originals were Sifam R22AF model. Probably a special run with the status LEDs.
All info seems to suggest they are discontinued, and replaced with the AL29WF, though dimensionally they are not compatible. I confirmed, as I have the AL29WF in my Hairballaudio 1176.
I may be able to make a custom 3D printed bezel to make them fit, but needless to say, it’s a bit annoying.
The last SSL that used the R22AF looks like the Axiom, in it's master section only.
Anthony.
really annoying, but I found this, not sure about dimensions tho..
https://www.don-audio.com/Sifam-R29AF-Retro-VU-Meter-New-Version-of-R22AF
Also I wonder if there was enough demand, would SIFAM produce a batch?
Matt Sartori
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That does look like a very close match (minus the status LEDs of course).
I've contacted Sifam to ask for a datasheet, and any alternatives they might offer.
A few years back I was involved in a group buy for some dbx 160VU meters.... will have to do some deep searching and get back to you.
Anthony,
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That does look like a very close match (minus the status LEDs of course).
I've contacted Sifam to ask for a datasheet, and any alternatives they might offer.
A few years back I was involved in a group buy for some dbx 160VU meters.... will have to do some deep searching and get back to you.
Anthony,
you beat me to it, but I wrote an email asking if they would consider remanufacturing.
it's bank holiday in england on monday so I suppose it will take them a few days to reply.
Matt Sartori
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Here is the response from Sifam.
I think i may be able to get the AL29WF to work, but with a custom designed bezel to adapt it to the R22AF cutout.
"Many thanks for your email, I’ve attached the data sheet of the meters we can supply, if yours is the R22AF the nearest replacement would be the type AL29WF with internal LED illumination, part number, IS 14666 as 6 volt illumination, partnumber, IS 14667 as 12 volt illumination"
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I would interested in buying 8.
Mike
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Here is the response from Sifam.
I think i may be able to get the AL29WF to work, but with a custom designed bezel to adapt it to the R22AF cutout.
"Many thanks for your email, I’ve attached the data sheet of the meters we can supply, if yours is the R22AF the nearest replacement would be the type AL29WF with internal LED illumination, part number, IS 14666 as 6 volt illumination, partnumber, IS 14667 as 12 volt illumination"
Just wrote to them to see whether they are interested in re-manufacturing the originals if there is enough demand..
waiting to hear back
Matt Sartori
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Nope... this is the answer I got from Sifam:
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Hi Matt
We did look at it some time ago but, as all the tools for the type 22 have now been scrapped, the cost to redevelop and retool was to high.
Best regards
Ray"
Dead end this is....
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Unbelievable! You should never throw out tooling.
Guess ill have to keep working on the AL29WF adaptor.
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Unbelievable! You should never throw out tooling.
Guess ill have to keep working on the AL29WF adaptor.
My gut feeling (and this is solely my opinion) is that they do not want to build them any longer..so the tooling bit is just an excuse... 8)
Matt Sartori.
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no, probably the tooling was worn out, it happens, hence the words redevelopment and retool in their answer.
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Here's the first prototype of the VU meter adaptor. It's a standard R22AF bezel out front, and fits an AL29WF out back.
The bezel will clip in to a standard SSL meter panel fascia, and the AL29WF should clip in to position in the back.
Currently in blue (will be black ABS) and needs a clean up. Hopefully picking it up in the next few days.
In addition to this, I've designed a PCB to attach to the back of the AL29WF to hold the lighting, status LEDs, and buffer, and have started discussions around custom gauge plates which have the status (Record, Tape, Group, VCA) LED holes and text on them.
(https://scontent.fmel5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64746125_2664754286886431_7395645959557873664_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel5-1.fna&oh=a32d6dc5bbef7fde4f39fd3318ee6c7e&oe=5D8FAADB)
(https://scontent.fmel5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62600511_2664754303553096_2778698369969684480_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel5-1.fna&oh=84508c253fa14266039800adbe57193a&oe=5D87E057)
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how long did it take to print out?
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I'm not sure how long it took exactly, but it was under 3 hours from when i emailed the file, to when he sent the photo of the finished part.
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Here is what it looks like.
Black ABS will come out better. You don't notice the layer marks as much in real life as you do in the photos.
I broke one of the two clips off as the PLA was quite brittle - next revision will fix that.
(https://scontent.fmel5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64850079_2667983329896860_7102277879102177280_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel5-1.fna&oh=16fd6146dbefcbab05194d211a354374&oe=5D7F8B03)
(https://scontent.fmel5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64393631_2667983343230192_2656198506754080768_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel5-1.fna&oh=385e84f3a37386cf14334923260b41ac&oe=5DC61A6C)
(https://scontent.fmel5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/r270/64398568_2667983883230138_504408411010498560_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel5-1.fna&oh=0fc14f116db91d6d6667dc2cf3c16358&oe=5D7C3807)
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Awesome.
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Nice!
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Hi horizonsound,
If you want to avoid breaking th clips, is better to print in SLS (Selective Laser Sintering) method instead of FDM (Fused Deposition Modeling). With FDM method, breaking between layers it is very common issue depending of the geometry of the printed part. SLS printed parts are mechanically very similar to injected plastic (it could be more expensive).
Nice job anyway!!
I will keep reading the post.
Regards.
Oihan
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Thanks for the tip. I’ll pass it on for the next trials.
I’m quite relieved there is at least an option possible to make up a full SSL 4000 meter bridge with modern VU meters.
On eBay, you can pick up cheap ones for a third of the Sifam cost. Not sure on the quality though.
Anthony.
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remember that none of these are VU meters. That would imply they meet the standards of what a VU meter is , which is more than just pointing at zero at +4dbu on tone. It is a set of readings based on the ballistics of the meter and its sensitivity which show a consistent response across time and meters. There are very few real VU meters out there. very few.
But that doesn't mean that other meters can't be useful, but you need to compare them individually with tone burst and such to get an idea if they react in a similar fashion.
to read what a VU meter really is, here are two links to AES that provide that.
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/chinn_a-new-svi.pdf
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/hilliard_early-history-of-vi.pdf
Cheers
Alan