SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: Audioplatinum Service on October 25, 2012, 06:35:08 PM
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Hello!
I need to build the box to switch between two monitors with Alt-button on the console (SSL4040). I have all service manuals, modifications info and other documentation, but…I don't have shematic for relay box…
If any of you have the schematics and a chance to share them I´d be more than happy.
Any advice will be highly appreciated!
Raf
http://embrioproduction.com
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Hello!
I need to build the box to switch between two monitors with Alt-button on the console (SSL4040). I have all service manuals, modifications info and other documentation, but…I don't have shematic for relay box…
If any of you have the schematics and a chance to share them I´d be more than happy.
Any advice will be highly appreciated!
Raf
http://embrioproduction.com
It's very simple, you just need a 4 relays and a psu to excite them (and short the other input to ground when not in use), I have the diagram on a JPG somewhere, I have to dig it out and post it.
Currently fixing a 4064 and an Aysis...so really B-U-S-Y! hope sintech will chime in, otherwise will try and re-draw it later on..
Mattia.
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Ok Mattia...
Not very urgent... ;-)
If you find .jpg, please send on my mail or PM me...
Tnx!
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I need that too.
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Me three.
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will upload it on friday, I am going to grab my Hard Drive tomorrow!
Mattia.
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That's it!
;-)
tnx a lot!
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Hi!
Anyone able to tell witch pins at DL59 ALT switch is connected?
My papers doesen't show it.
Cheers,
Paavo
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grab it! pinout for DL59
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wa6f46bdv2s801/20130730_180642.jpg
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Great, thanks a ton!
-Paavo
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One question... I am not limited to switching between 2 sets of MINI SPEAKERS, correct? I can also use the ALT switch to switch between two sets of speakers that are connected to my MAIN monitor outs, right? In other words, the ALT switch can switch whatever relays I am connecting to it?
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Yeah, you just feed from Main rather than mini.
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Hi all. Some older consoles didn't have DL59 fitted unless they were specified with a remote 621 Producers panel and the more standard pinout I have for DL59 doesn't have the alt switching on it. In fact I have not seen the pinout supplied by Audio Platinum ever before. It doesn't have all of the 621 functions listed but seems to be a custom version.
DL 59 was reserved for the 621 and that is why various consoles and patchbay wiring miss this out (going straight from 58 to 60). If you haven't got DL 59 on your console, you may find the alt switching on the last 2 crimps of DL33 (P8 and N8). I have found it here on two DL33 pinouts I have but a recent console I worked on didn't have it there and two other pinouts had Listen Mics 1 and 2 as the last two circuits instead!
If it's not on DL59 or 33, try looking at DL's 31 or 32. SSL pinouts, especially the centre section ones, kept changing as the consoles got larger and had more facilities in them.
Hope this helps and regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
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Good to know that, thanks Jim!
-Paavo
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Hi All. Amendment 7 Nov 13 to my earlier post:
After looking at Mattia's wiring for an LS switcher, I noticed the alt switching wires are screened at the DL end. Although a screened Brandrex cable was used for this, as far as I recall, there is no screen ground point within the console for this therefore, the external wire used has to be screened at the relax box end as a power wire ground (not an audio ground) somehow. The 2 core wires are just probably 12 or 24v relay contacts, not audio of course, and end up just going to the 651 alt switch contacts 3 and 4. I have a feeling that there may not be a screen wire on the DL circuit but, if there is, it needs to be grounded outside the console as this just screens the wire up to, but not including, the 651.
I have also looked at various documentation here and the alt switch seems to be labelled Z02 in every case. If you can't easily find it on any of the DL's, drop them down and look at the white cable labels to identify it.
As a further thought, and as far as I am aware, none of the screened Brandrex cables going into the 651 via the two 104 way MRAC connectors (1 and 2) are screened at the 651 end. They get their grounding from the copper bar end block, via the patch or from outside the console via the DL's.
Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
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Thanks Jim - will keep you guys posted, this relay box is on my list for the next 2-3 weeks.
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This is the same circuit that I use, but I prefer loading the amps slightly rather than shorting them to ground. So instead of shorting the amp inputs to shield in OFF I connect a 100 ohm resistor between hot and cold.
I found that in some instances a load was better than a short so made that my standard.
As far as relays are concerned I used to make a 1U panel PTP with 4 of the the block 4PDT (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/KHAU-17D16-24/PB603-ND/678236) relays that panel mount with a connector but now use 2 of any sealed 12V "DIP style"DPDT (http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv1409=36&FV=fff40010%2Cfff80368%2C1200002%2Ca700002&k=relay&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25) relays on a PCB inside a box. If you find any good DPDT sealed relay surplus then go for it.
Mike
PS: maybe it's just me but I find the search filtering at Mouser very clumsy compared to Digi or Newark
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I often search at Digi and then look up the part at Mouser, last few years often better prices.
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Hey guys long time ....been super busy
on my 6048 i dont have relays and i switch fine between mains and mini, actually i have ns 10s on minis(mini pot).... expose8s on main and when i hit alt it takes me to backfield mains (big pot)....so why a relay??? did i miss something?
Rae
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Relay gives you a total of 4 speaker sets (instead of 2)
Hey guys long time ....been super busy
on my 6048 i dont have relays and i switch fine between mains and mini, actually i have ns 10s on minis(mini pot).... expose8s on main and when i hit alt it takes me to backfield mains (big pot)....so why a relay??? did i miss something?
Rae
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Hey Marc
4??? of what anything?...like i said i have 3 already going...4 might be interesting i just dont know where id put a 4th set ...lol
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You should have a relay/relays then somewhere. Whatever the ALT-button switches should be the relays.
Hey Marc
4??? of what anything?...like i said i have 3 already going...4 might be interesting i just dont know where id put a 4th set ...lol
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i looked , im literally plugged on off the dl
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Ordering parts... would these relays work?
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/505036/Signalrelais-TQ-1-A-2-x-UK-Print-Panasonic-TQ212-monostabil-12-V-2-Wechsler-Max-1-A-110-VDC125-VAC-30-W625-VA?ref=searchDetail
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/504879/Signalrelais-TXS-1-A-2-x-UK-Print-Panasonic-TXS212-12-V-2-Wechsler-Max-1-A-110-VDC125-VAC-30-W?ref=searchDetail
And I'm getting one of these to mount the relays on...
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/530791/Conrad-Europlatine-Punktraster-SU527777-L-x-B-160-mm-x-100-mm-Rastermass-254-mm-Epoxy-mit-Cu-Auflage?ref=list
A simple power supply like this sufficient to switch the relays?
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/518365/Stecker-Netzteil-Festspannung-VOLTCRAFT-SNG-121500-OW-12-VDC-1500-mA?ref=searchDetail
The Capacitor in the diagram - does it say 100uF or 100nF ??
Really appreciate your help - thanks!
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Ordering parts... would these relays work?
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/505036/Signalrelais-TQ-1-A-2-x-UK-Print-Panasonic-TQ212-monostabil-12-V-2-Wechsler-Max-1-A-110-VDC125-VAC-30-W625-VA?ref=searchDetail
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/504879/Signalrelais-TXS-1-A-2-x-UK-Print-Panasonic-TXS212-12-V-2-Wechsler-Max-1-A-110-VDC125-VAC-30-W?ref=searchDetail
And I'm getting one of these to mount the relays on...
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/530791/Conrad-Europlatine-Punktraster-SU527777-L-x-B-160-mm-x-100-mm-Rastermass-254-mm-Epoxy-mit-Cu-Auflage?ref=list
A simple power supply like this sufficient to switch the relays?
http://www.conrad.biz/ce/de/product/518365/Stecker-Netzteil-Festspannung-VOLTCRAFT-SNG-121500-OW-12-VDC-1500-mA?ref=searchDetail
The Capacitor in the diagram - does it say 100uF or 100nF ??
Really appreciate your help - thanks!
All good here, I would use the second type of relays because the contacts are slightly bigger and maybe a better power supply,although it's not essential because you are only using it to drive the relays so there is no audio involved.
the only reason I am saying this is to avoid any crap being induced into the other pieces of gear.
M.
EDIT:
I have had a good look at farnell website and I think the PSU you found on conrad it's really good for the money!
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Started putting together the Alt Monitor Switcher today, everything is going smooth so far.
What I didn't fully understand was where to put the 100nF cap. I bought some red WIMA Film-Caps and put one across the relay contact, but I couldn't open and close the relay any more so I removed it again.
Where did I go wrong?
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Marc is it nF or uF, hard to tell from the drawing Mattia posted.
The cap just smooths the pop/noise of the switch, maybe try a 100uF and see if it operates.
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it's 100nF but any cap will do it, it's just there to smooth out the relays dirt.
Mattia
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I have never had any dirt with the snubber diode alone on either the 4PDT or DPDT relays.
Mike
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How do I know which direction to put the diode in?
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From the schematic, the black line should point to positive volts.
I'm assuming ground is at the other end of the relay coil
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it would be good to have a run of let's say 100 PCBs made...
sintech? ;D ;D ;D
Mattia.
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By the way,
Most of you should already know this but in the 4000 service manual there's a schematic for the original switcher that was manufactured by SSL.
Cheers,
Artur
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Which page of the service manual - can you scan and post please?
I just finished mine using Mattia's schematic above. Not sure if I have followed it 100%, but it works great. I have a tiny little click on one side of the speakers but not enough to worry about.
Couldn't get the capacitor to work in the schematic, the relay would either not switch or not prevent the audible click when switching.
Anyway, job done and happy!
By the way,
Most of you should already know this but in the 4000 service manual there's a schematic for the original switcher that was manufactured by SSL.
Cheers,
Artur
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(http://i1362.photobucket.com/albums/r686/adassumpcao1/altmix_zps26adc12c.png)
Section 5-6, pdf page 108
Hope it helps! :D
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Thanks! This is what I've done, just used 4 relays and added a diode across the relay contacts.
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Marc, thinking about the last time I did one of these, seem to remember putting the caps over the Audio contact, not the power.
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Marc, thinking about the last time I did one of these, seem to remember putting the caps over the Audio contact, not the power.
That makes sense, since when switching within the console there are also caps after the switching.
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took mine off, bad memory...
M.
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The SSL diagram shows the 2 Alternative Monitor switch wires usually on DL 59.
This DL is for the remote Producers Panel and earlier 4 and 6K consoles didn't have this fitted unless the 3u 621 Producers Panel was ordered from SSL. In most circumstances, look for 2 DL pins (not 3 as is the case for the audio circuits) normally around circuits 25 - 32 on one of the centre section DL's (31, 32 or 33).
When you have found 2 pins on a DL within a circuit, unscrew and drop the DL down and look at the label which could be Z02 for the Alt switch or Z01 for the Red Light switching. Both of these should end up in the 104 way MRAC connector, M1 at the 651. Of course you can bleep through directly from the switch to the DL pins to identify the Alt switching wires.
I think the Alt switch may have, either a 12 or 24 volt T5.5 lamp inside but am not sure (check it out). Whatever the case, I also think that the bulb is powered by the external switcher box power supply rather than the console but I may be wrong.
Hope this helps from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
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I think the Alt switch may have, either a 12 or 24 volt T5.5 lamp inside but am not sure (check it out). Whatever the case, I also think that the bulb is powered by the external switcher box power supply rather than the console but I may be wrong.
(www.profcon.co.uk). Also on FACEBOOK (http://www.facebook.com/pages/ProfCon-wwwprofconcouk-Professional-Connections-Jim-Lassen/371183312969924?ref=hl/)
On my 1992 G, the ALT bulb is powered even when no external switcher connected. Found the Pins on DL59 (and my console has a 621 Producers Panel). Wondering about the red light switch. Couldn't get it to close. Maybe it's connected to the Logic being in Record?
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Hi Marc
If the Alt switch lamp is powered regardless of any external switching taking place, it would probably mean that the Alt switch is a 2 pole version with the SSL supplying power to the lamp on one pole and just the 2 external contacts on the other pole.
To have these Alt contacts on DL59 would seem unusual as, to use them, a user would need another DL (which is expensive) just to use 2 pins for this function. Again, look at DL's 31, 32 and 33 which should have the 2 pins on there in most cases.
Red light switching: This was designed so that, when the console is in record mode, an external relay could light up a sign by the recording area live rooms to warn people NOT to enter in case they interfere with the recording process. I think that this is automatically activated when the console is in record mode so, you should just need 2 wires from these Z01 contacts wired out to an external relay to power some illuminated signs in the right places.
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Regarding the click you should swap things around L-R and ALT-MAIN to determine if it is the switcher or the amp. Usually a click or pop is shield/grounding related. Did you short the +/- in MUTE positions or use a load resistor? Changing to load resistors helped with light pops in my experience. It helped compensate for differences in amp inputs.
Mike
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Can you guys point me to what kind of relays to look for? Perhaps a mouser.com Link?
I think I have a spare to sell if you just want to buy it made.