SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: Kats on January 23, 2013, 02:12:58 AM
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I've heard through the grape vine that Dramastic Audio will be showing off their new automation and TR software at NAMM. Apparently it runs on Mac and replaces the SSL computer.
Finally.
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Crazy, just hope the pricing is not mega out of reach!!! hehehe
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Uuuuuuuuu.... Very intresting, thanks for sharing.
-Paavo
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uuuuuh!!! This is so powerful news! I've been waiting for this for a looooooong time!
I really hope they price it in such a way it's not prohibitive!
Thanks for the heads up!
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Can't wait to see this (As I suppose a LOT of studios out there)! anybody going to NAMM?
Mattia.
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Potentially fantastic news. Colin Sanders was always pro Mac (I remember him mucking about with some SE computers way back) but the SSL computer was based on PC protocols at the time. Paul Bamborough, the man behind the mix software in the late 1970's helped SSL achieve fame with his vast contribution. I believe he may have received a 1% royality for each system sold after he left. The analog sound was never in doubt but if the computer system can now be drastically updated to reflect modern times and technology, so be it and about ruddy time as it's been some 30 years. This new idea, if viable, could prolong the use of SSL consoles for a long time ahead. Also, it could mean a load more views on this website!!!
I have just emailed Dramastic with the following message:
'As a contributor (and ex SSL employee from 1980 till 1987) to an SSL forum, I have found out that you people may have an exciting new product to replace the Solid State Logic computer system. I and others hope this is the true and about time!
Please look at our site and explain what you have to offer at the forthcoming NAMM exhibition as there could be a lot of people interested in this.
I am just a wiring guy and not technical but I saw a post on the forum and thought that people there could be interested. Already, there have been a few posts in anticipation today. Here is a link to the SSL forum site:'
Hope this helps SSL forum people. Watch this space I guess!
I'm about to post something about wiring a DL connector and have nearly all the details and pictures sorted. It will be in the how to do menu but may be overshadowed by this new computer development!!!!
Regards from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk).
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wow!!
i'll be at namm on saturday, will report back.
tony - any idea if this'll work with ultimation?
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damn! I already feel anxious about this... someone report back quickly!! :D
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i'll be at namm on saturday, will report back.
Great!
Can you please take some pics?
-Paavo
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Great news! And good initiative there Jim!
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Videos of the Dramastic G Platinum prototype at the 2013 Winter NAMM show!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kuuz4_Pww8
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ito4ATgq2l4
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Wow!!! This is really awesome!!! Looks fantastic!! Wanna know more, please tells u more details about it!
Where do you connect all the console's cabling?
Does it support automation and total recall?
What's the pricing?! :D
Cheers,
Artur
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It's a complete replacement for the SSL CPU. Plugs in to the console with the same ribbon cables as the original SSL CPU. Supports automation and total recall.
The SSL keyboard emulation even makes the same key noise when typing. Video:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PXxcDoXT1_o
No price point yet but they're speculating $7500 - $8000. Which is less than what it would cost to find a used SSL CPU when your original dies. Production models are shipping this summer.
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Yes but this software will clearly kill the price of the old hardware to less than half of whatever Dramstic is going to sell their's for.
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Jesus, this looks very promising! That SSL keyboard is very sweet! :)
I'm curious to see more about the main computer that is connected to the console. What's the size and the interfaces it uses?! :D
Also about the functionality, I suppose it has TR and also emulates exactly the VCA automation?! :D
These guys really need to publish more info and videos about it! :)
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This is huge news!!!
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This is incredible.. It's about time someone did this!
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Looks very promising.
Price is ridiculous IMO, but hey, they are only ones done it so far.
-Paavo
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I also think that price tag is a little bit too high...
I would like to see the hardware of the main computer.
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Is the price set or just speculation?
Stef.
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There's already a reference to the product at Dramastic Audio website, although you still can't get details about it...which I hope we can soon.
http://www.dramasticaudio.com/index.html
We should get Dramastic Audio guys in here! :)
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There's already a reference to the product at Dramastic Audio website, although you still can't get details about it...which I hope we can soon.
http://www.dramasticaudio.com/index.html
We should get Dramastic Audio guys in here! :)
I have already wrote to them I hope they will chime in.
perhaps it will take more than an email to convince them to join us! ;)
Mattia.
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Who do we need to bribe afterall?! :D I mean...pay some booze and some chicks?! :D
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I wonder if they can get the SSL keyboard to work with the system.
The keyboard ribbon has to connect as there is global TR stuff down that ribbon.
S
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Here's the pics so far:
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/PlatinumG1_zpsa15b670f.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/PlatinumG2_zps0bb632b8.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/PlatinumG4_zps7853777d.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/PlatinumG3_zpsdd193f7d.jpg)
Checkout the B series 4k module (second channel in)
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(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/PlatinumG3_zpsdd193f7d.jpg)
Checkout the B series 4k module (second channel in)
great, how did they managed to find it?! :D
I hope they will get in touch soon, this is going to be a very positive thing for everybody!
Mattia.
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Thanks for pics!
System looks very promising, I'm worried about the price thought.
-Paavo
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This is very good news! I hope Dramastic Audio released detailed info about as soon as possible.
This has an huge amount of work here, and will indeed prolong the life of vintage SSL consoles which are still the best! :D
Please keep posting more infos and get Dramastic Audio in here! :)
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Great pictures Andy. I guess the console S14E 50 way computer ribbons plug into the back of that 3u (probably a prototype) rack on the left hand side of the picture but it would good if a rear picture was available.
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Product page is up on the dramastic site.
http://dramasticaudio.com/vid%20convert/images/vid-convert.html
Heard they were working with Avid to allow it so console movements would automate in to Pro Tools. Wow.
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New video showing the swipe action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv1mtj4rDaM
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i had a quick look yesterday. didn't take any pictures, there wasn't really anything that hasn't been covered.
they said that the final system will be modular, similar to a 500 series rack, so you can add blocks of 8 channels.
the price will be an 'average' of 7-8k. if you have a bigger console, the price will go up too.
i'm sure this will be a great system for many people, and they are working on ways to connect the whole thing directly to pro tools.
they don't seem to have any ambition to make the old keyboard and screen work again, which makes the whole thing a bit pointless to me personally.
i'm quick on the old system, and the last thing i want is a touch screen interface that distracts me from the music while mixing.
but that's just me, and i'm sure many of you think otherwise.
the recall looks fancy, but doesn't really add any new features.
daw implementation will be the big one, let's see what happens.
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Hi Brewery!
Thanks for the report! I must confess the the system is a bit pricey...
Btw, have you had the chance to take a look at the automation? Is it the same look and feel as the original?
Cheers,
Artur
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It needs to fit into the current work flow, and maybe have at least Midi MTC, so it locks to Protools without the need for a virtual machine (2Tools ZX card) I'm guessing this will be the case, and it's stated it has SMPTE read/Write.
I use 2" tape also, so I'm wondering if it will be happy with the standard Otari profile, with Tach pulses and code. Mmm..
If the price is wrong.. they just won't sell.
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Also, is this a Mac emulation running the original code, or written from the ground up? It's a very small market they've gone for, and they have to get it exactly right.
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That would be a major bummer if they don't get the centre keyboard working..
I'm starting to fly around this keyboard now, auto matching etc when making moves. Having to deal with a touchscreen keyboard will send me psycho.
S.
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That would be a major bummer if they don't get the centre keyboard working..
I'm starting to fly around this keyboard now, auto matching etc when making moves. Having to deal with a touchscreen keyboard will send me psycho.
S.
It totally needs to be better than what we have... otherwise no one will buy it, like Pedro's 'Automan" system, it was way to personal conceptually, and that was it's failing to a lot of us.
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That would be a major bummer if they don't get the centre keyboard working..
I'm starting to fly around this keyboard now, auto matching etc when making moves. Having to deal with a touchscreen keyboard will send me psycho.
S.
It totally needs to be better than what we have... otherwise no one will buy it, like Pedro's 'Automan" system, it was way to personal conceptually, and that was it's failing to a lot of us.
i guess some people think it's better - nicer gui, sync via usb, pt integration etc.
but honestly, i don't want any of that when i'm automating on the board. i find this is the time where it's most important to just be 'in the zone', and not have bright screens around, let alone touchscreens.
for really tight rides and getting rid of esses, daw automation is totally fine, and it won't mess with inserted dynamics.
but when it comes to more creative rides, the less distraction there is the better (imho)
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I've looked at some of the comments on this forum about the potentially new SSL type computer product from Dramastic and have some observations to make as follows:
1 The price may seem to be a bit too prohibitive for quite few users these days. Consoles used to cost 120K but are now nearer 20k. The computer price should reflect that.
2 If it interfaces to ProTools, that is good for now but, can it be somehow future proofed for something else later on?
3 The iPad screen understandably seems to be too small to deal with. Surely, most studios have fairly large screens these days. Have Dramsatic thought about having a mouse to locate and change settings on an external screen?
4 Does this run on PC as well as Mac?
5 Does it have a split screen facility (same screen and/or different screens)?
6 The older SSL's had a 5" TV with other images projected onto a larger screen (originally a 32" BARCO, supplied by SSL in the early 1980's for about £3,000 from memory). Maybe the keyboard could be on an iPad type device and other functions shown on a bigger screen.
7 If the smaller iPad device is used near the console centre section, have they thought about how it fits on the console (on sliders, just resting on some nearby panels, channels or perhaps mounted on another stand ... even a mic stand!)
8 Are all Timecode issues addressed?
9 Can it print TR and track lists etc like the original SSL products if required?
10 What are the price implications for adding extra channels?
11 Do the existing console 50 way S14E ribbons just plug into the external rack?
12 Would this hardware rack be a 3u version or different?
13 Is TR fully catered for?
14 What does this new computer system add, if anything, to the existing, much older SSL version?
15 Looks like it may be available in the summer of 2013. Could some people have a Beta version to test out?
16 If they get the product and pricing right, it could prolong the life of SSL consoles. If not then we all lose out!
17 It seems as though the old 681 keyboard and the 685 screen will be redundant. The bad news is that these items will be worth less and the good news is that you can use these 681 and 682 sized spaces for something else (note that the 685 TV fitted into a 682 sized space).
18 Does it work with Ultimation?
19 Is Midi catered for?
20 Does it interface with various older analog tape machines?
21 What are the various maximum cable length implications (iPad to rack, console to rack etc)?
These are the thoughts I have had so far (excuse me if I have got any details wrong). Obviously, there will be more questions and points to make as things develop over the next few days or weeks. I don't know much about the SSL computer issues but thought I would point various things out as this new product could have an affect on us all. If it keeps the SSL dream alive, that's great.
Hope this helps from Jim Lassen (www.profcon.co.uk). Based in the UK
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Best news ever! I'm very enthusiastic about this. The videos tell me that these guys know exactly what they are doing. I definitely want to have it.
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Hi SSL people. I had an email today from John Ellis from Dramastic which is shown below.
He responded to an email I sent a few days ago which is as follows (I have edited it a bit for clarity purposes):
This is my email in red.
When the word spread around last week that you people were developing a new replacement SSL computer system, this forum went wild and the original post has now had over 2600 views and 38 replies to date. I realise that you are busy at NAMM but you almost have a ready made market via this website. Hopefully, you have seen this website before, if not, do so right now as it could prove very useful to you and your future clients.
Mattia Sartori, the creator of the site has also written to you and Sintech (Andy Henderson) and I (username jimlfixit) are moderators). This site is just dedicated to SSL users unlike Gearslutz and others.
On my last post on the subject, I have written 21 points or questions. Perhaps you people could post something on there as a reply to all our questions especially as NAMM may be finished now and you can start to answer all the many enquiries you may have coming in after NAMM exhibition. More pictures would also help including some of the rear of the hardware rack showing what and how the existing cables plug in.
Am I correct in assuming that your system replaces the 11u computer rack, 5u power supply, any hard drives plus the console 5" monitor and keyboard? Also, do the console 50 way ribbons just plug into the 3u rack? What about the S113E SMPTE lead and other console functions if required? Can the iPad screen be duplicated or split with other screens (see my list of questions on the forum)?
Could some technical people over here in the UK (Sintech and / or Mata Haze) have a Beta sample to evaluate and provide feedback to you.
If your product works and is priced correctly, you could sell a lot of these and it will extend the life of the SSL console. The link to ProTools is also very handy.
I'm just a wiring guy but realise that there are some problems (especially spares) with a 30 year old SSL computer system judging by the comments I have seen or heard over the years. Maybe, your product is what all SSL users have been waiting for especially as SSL don't support their older systems any more!
This is John's reply in blue, again edited for clarity.
The new system completely replaces the old SSL computer and power supply. No modification to the console is necessary. The G Platinum processor connects to your console via the 50pin ribbon cables and to your Mac via USB. Your iPad then connects via WiFi. The iPad is now your GUI and displays the recall as well as session and mix data with high resolution graphics. This data can also be viewed on the MAC. The software and all session data resides on your MAC.
The new system is modular and can be configured to your specific console. Each card handles 8 channels of I/O. There is also a built in SMPTE generator / reader. The hardware and software have been designed from scratch. The software will be very similar to the original but with some modern improvements. More software updates are planned for the future.
I showed a prototype of the system displaying a recall at NAMM 2013 last week. The system is currently in development and a production model should be ready sometime this summer.
Feel free to contact me with any questions
John Ellis, Design Engineer
Dramastic Audio Corp.
22 Graystone Place
Milford, NH 03055
(978) 263-5096 phone
(978) 264-4301 fax
I hope I have addressed some of our issues correctly. Also, it would be good if John, or others from Dramastic, view the many comments on this subject in this forum and post some comments to an eager bunch of SSL users. I'll amend this and add his email address after I obtain his consent first. Regards from Jim Lassen (jimlfixit). www.profcon.co.uk.
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Thanks Jim, great job!
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THanks Jim!
I hope the guys at Dramastic Audio release soon more detailed info and detailed movies about this great product. I hope they'll price it fairly too.
It would also awesome to seem them here at the forum...
Great neeews! :D
Cheers,
Artur
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Doesnt this opens up other oppertunities like in future software updates been able to use the console as a DAW controller aswell? Just thinking out loud, track arming/rec enable could be useful (read fun) :)
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I'm sure the future of this new Mix/Recall Computer is largely depending on the number of SSL 4000-owners who go for it. Same for the price. One would think it's a no-brainer for any studio still seriously using a 4000, but as we all know studio economics have drastically changed so it's not a safe bet.
I sure wanna have it, but 7-8000 USD is a tough call.
Doesnt this opens up other oppertunities like in future software updates been able to use the console as a DAW controller aswell? Just thinking out loud, track arming/rec enable could be useful (read fun) :)
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I received an email from John Ellis saying they're looking into getting the original G Keyboard to work with the system.
Great news.
Stef.
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Any News about this?!!
Why advertise products that are not marketed in a decent time?
I don't understand today's marketing. In my opinion it's not a good business move. !!
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It is a huge undertaking. Yeah, they were a bit quick to show the recall and everybody got excited. The last I spoke to one of the alphas in the summer the automation coding is really difficult, and how many people still want to automate on the desk at what price point?
Mike
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This may be a long shot but Paul Bamborough worked on the original SSL software and Phil Cork did later from 1982-89 when he joined Motionworks for 9 years. Paul left and later designed the Lightworks editing software and one online report mentions that he may have sadly passed away (I hope I'm wrong) but I have indirectly traced Phil online and he now works at Tom Tom in Holland.
His work experience at SSL is described as follows:
'Led a team of 2 to evolve the hardware and software for Studio Computer for SL4000-6000 consoles from E series to G series, expanding disc and memory storage, and rewriting dynamic mix system for greater speed and operator functionality. Programming was in Mini Computer 16 bit assembly language. Won audio industry award for design and development of mixing console reset facility called Total Recall with Autoscan.'
Maybe he could help if contacted although the software rights presumably still belong to SSL and they would not really be inclined to help as it would supposedly extend the life of the older SSL consoles and they have already stopped supporting them as it would, rightly or wrongly, hinder sales of their newer consoles.
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SSL the company does not have a shred of anything related to the 4K/6K. The purged all parts, paper and PDF's when they dropped support. Anything that exists is with guys who worked there like you, Jim, and those who maintained them.
Someone coding for industrial automation would be the person to hire to get it done. That or a 13 year old Arduino wiz!
Mike
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It has always been my understanding that the largest part of the reason for SSL to remove all support for the 4k,6k, etc is ROHS. Note the dates of EOL support and the implementation of ROHS in Europe. It unfortunately makes sense for a large corp to end support when faced with that kind of exposure and conversion of parts stock cost. Especially when the original user base is mostly gone, they were the ones who paid for the level of support that SSL offered.
I do wish that they would do like Studer and post online a comprehensive manual source. But even Studer maintains IP control over their firmware.
Alan