SSlmixed.com Forum

Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 01:23:38 PM

Title: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 01:23:38 PM
More problems, whenever I solo the console it refuses to solo these channels (bucket) like its stuck in SOLO isolate ,its not possible to automate these channels aswell.
Today I clean everything in the bucket, checked all cabling between the buckets, I guess my next move will be to put the computer in bypass and see what happens? Any ideas where to start?
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 26, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
Do I get you right? Whenever you solo for example CH1, channels 25-32 refuses CUT? Is it happening with every channels / groups?
I would start from ribbons between console and computer and check is computer sending cut signal at all.

-Paavo
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 01:51:39 PM
Do I get you right? Whenever you solo for example CH1, channels 25-32 refuses MUTE? Is it happening with every channels / groups?
I would start from ribbons between console and computer and check is computer sending mute signal at all.

-Paavo

Exactly, and if I solo a channel in this bucket, say 25, it only mutes the channels in this bucket
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 26, 2013, 02:00:06 PM
Check is your computer sending CUT signal. I would measure it from computer first. If it's working then move to console and make sure your ribbon is working.
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 26, 2013, 02:03:29 PM
Btw, do you have Ultimation? When you say your nor able to make automation do you mean only CUT automation or fader automation as well?
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 02:11:01 PM
Btw, do you have Ultimation? When you say your nor able to make automation do you mean only CUT automation or fader automation as well?

Hmm, CUTs seem to be connected somehow, but no faders, I checked the cable to computer it says 17-32, if the cable was bad, shoudlnt bucket 17-24 be bad aswell?


VCA to meters doesnt work either on this bucket, it switches over but dont give any readings on the VU
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 26, 2013, 08:12:07 PM
...it says 17-32, if the cable was bad, shoudlnt bucket 17-24 be bad aswell?
This sounds odd. You should have one S14E 50-way ribbon cable per bay. Do you have a Service Manual to refer?
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 11:04:01 PM
...it says 17-32, if the cable was bad, shoudlnt bucket 17-24 be bad aswell?
This sounds odd. You should have one S14E 50-way ribbon cable per bay. Do you have a Service Manual to refer?

Yes you`re right, I was looking into the computer where they seem to mix together, the problem must be in the console cause even if I take all cables out from the console, its the same behaviour!
What card holds the solo isolates? It seems nothing gets into this bucket, nothing goes out!
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: StefanNowak on January 26, 2013, 11:16:02 PM
Swap the ribbons for the next 8 channels under the console, if it works, then there's something wrong in the computer (most likely in the analogue input card)

If you have a free input on the analogue card, swap it permanently and wipe your config and assign all your faders again.

I had 1 channel that wasn't responding at all to cuts, faders etc... I did this and now all is sweet.

Stef.
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 26, 2013, 11:24:09 PM
Swap the ribbons for the next 8 channels under the console, if it works, then there's something wrong in the computer (most likely in the analogue input card)

If you have a free input on the analogue card, swap it permanently and wipe your config and assign all your faders again.

I had 1 channel that wasn't responding at all to cuts, faders etc... I did this and now all is sweet.

Stef.

I just did that I guess, I disconnected the 25-32 ribbon both in the console and computer and then  took the ribbon from 33-40 to replace with, but nothing changed :(
Another strange thing i noticed now, when pushing the red -20 button behind the console for this bucket it makes strange noises
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: StefanNowak on January 26, 2013, 11:35:31 PM
How many channels is your console? Is this the last bucket? if so, check the ribbon underneath the modules connect the buckets..

If all is good, perhaps check the centre section TR card, seems there's a multiplexing issue going on.

Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 27, 2013, 12:05:25 AM
Its 56 channel

A correction : automation is working on these channels with cuts and faders so analog cards should be fine, but the bucket seems in some way stuck at solo isolate (25-32) Better go through all the cablig to and from this bucket again!

Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 27, 2013, 12:19:03 AM
Is it Ultimation or VCA console?
If it's not Ultimation, check dip switchs positions at 82E293 and refer them with channel from some other bay. You can also see how to set up switches from Service Manual page 1-30 (at least in mine)

-Paavo

edit: messed my thoughts between TR and Ultimation. Both, Ultimation and VCA, has same logic card
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 27, 2013, 12:36:14 AM
Is it Ultimation or VCA console?
If it's not Ultimation, check dip switchs positions at 82E293 and refer them with channel from some other bay. You can also see how to set up switches from Service Manual page 1-30 (at least in mine)

-Paavo

Its VCA, what card is that, cant find it in the manual,
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 27, 2013, 12:40:04 AM
It's a logic card, very bottom at the channel.

-Paavo
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 27, 2013, 02:22:57 AM
Thanks for your suggestions, I´ll have look at it when I fully understand what it does, I thought these switches was for machine control, if its the card under the multiplex :)
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 27, 2013, 02:26:51 AM
Oh yes, it's under multiplexer. Seems you have TR ;)
Did you find explanation for the switches from your manuals?

-Paavo
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 27, 2013, 02:38:28 AM
Yes, Tr works fine

What I find in the manual is

3 DIL Switches set various options for record switching and sensing

SW1 ON:Links Contacts B and
SW2 ON:Cancels record selection by Replay or mix
SW3 OFF: Record indication from Channel logic
SW3 ON: Record indication from Remote Sense
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on January 27, 2013, 03:21:18 AM
Please refer to:
http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/1-30.pdf (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/1-30.pdf)

If your logic card is somehow different and it misses these switches I've been talking bullshit all the time  ;D

Did this problem jumped up recently after some repair job or has it been there all the time?
These consoles might be highly customized for different kind of jobs and it doesen't suprise me if there's one whole bay configured a bit different than others.

-Paavo
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on January 27, 2013, 03:59:17 AM
Please refer to:
http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/1-30.pdf (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/1-30.pdf)

If your logic card is somehow different and it misses these switches I've been talking bullshit all the time  ;D

Did this problem jumped up recently after some repair job or has it been there all the time?
These consoles might be highly customized for different kind of jobs and it doesen't suprise me if there's one whole bay configured a bit different than others.

-Paavo

I think it was due to a repair job, and if I dont remember wrong smoke came up from center section, fixed all visiable faults and thought everything was fine, I dont know if ther could be something in the centersection controlling SOLO iSOLATES ?
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: brewery on January 27, 2013, 08:32:26 PM
lots of desk have a few solo isolates in the center section.
the cut buss traces are cut on the upper buss boards, and have cables going to the switches. if it was done properly by ssl, there will be a d-sub that clamps onto one of the ribbons from the 651. if that d-sub came loose, you won't be able to mute those buckets by soloing another channel.
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on February 15, 2013, 09:18:02 AM
lots of desk have a few solo isolates in the center section.
the cut buss traces are cut on the upper buss boards, and have cables going to the switches. if it was done properly by ssl, there will be a d-sub that clamps onto one of the ribbons from the 651. if that d-sub came loose, you won't be able to mute those buckets by soloing another channel.

Today Im going to investigate this behavior so any help appreciated :) I have taken out all channels in this bucket and the bucket before this one, and the upper buscard for this bucket, cleaning everything up.
brewery, Is it the d-subs named S15-19 you mean, they seem to be bolted onto the 651 and all is in place.

I still suspect that there is something wrong with Solo isolate (I guess it could even be the button thats stuck but lamp is coming on/off), everything else works, fader automation/cuts, but nothing comes in or out from this bucket when soloing other channels, or soloing channels in this bucket doesnt cut the rest of the console
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on February 15, 2013, 05:31:41 PM
shutted down the computer, and center section completely (also checked every cable going in to 651), cleaned and put in new cables to the upper bus card, still solo works in every bucket except 25-32.

Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: brewery on February 16, 2013, 02:11:43 AM
does your desk have VUs? if so, the solo isolate switches are most likely in that 3x3 block on the 651 that has the spectra features on bargraph consoles.

i'm not at the studio, so i don't know which ribbon goes to those switches. usually, another d-sub clamps onto that ribbon (on the cable itself), and this hooks up to the wires on the upper bus cards.
which begs the question - are there any cables soldered to the underside of your upper bus cards?? if not, you don't have the solo isolate mod.

the only other things i could think of: dodgy upper bus card connectors (not sure, but i think it's S3 or S4), or a faulty trace on the card itself. did you look for bent pins on those connectors?
just check the solo bus up there for continuity, and i'm sure you'll find the failure.
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on February 16, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Many thanks for your help.

The console has VU,

I can solo isolate 3 buckets, 25-32, 33-40 and 41-48, this has always worked, except now then for 25-32

Gonna check for bent pins tomorrow
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: brewery on February 18, 2013, 01:10:29 AM
this can really only be:

broken switch/loose wire in the center section (the switch opens the contact for solo isolate)
loose d-sub from upper buss card cables
fault on the upper buss card itself - cold solder joint, broken trace, one of the wires came off. these cables are soldered on from the bottom.
dodgy ribbon connector between the bus cards.

either way, should be an easy fix.
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Showcase on February 21, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
Problem solved, it was a ribbon cable that was a little loose underneath between Master fader and Red light button :/
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: kilmister on February 22, 2013, 08:15:13 AM
Great!
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: brewery on February 22, 2013, 09:11:26 AM
yeah, nice one!
Title: Re: Problems, 25-32 seems not responding to automation etc...
Post by: Artur D'Assumpção on February 22, 2013, 10:44:23 AM
Nice catch! :D