SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: kilmister on January 27, 2013, 07:18:39 PM
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Hi Folks,
I know there's few different revisions of Ultimation faders but that's pretty much what I know about them.
Anyone able to tell more history about them?
I'm asking this because I would like to buy few faders from Kevin (aka audioparlour) but from pics I got from him I can tell they are older revision than ours, so they doesen't work right away. Kevin is nice enought to send me one so I can check if it's possible modify to fit in our console. Only difference I know is touch sense hybrid which is tooken from 9K console to the newer revisions. PCB needs little trace cut and there LM7805 in TO92 package and touch sense has to be changed.
Anything else?
Thanks in advance,
Paavo
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are you sure they don't work together?
i don't have any details either, but my console has mainly rev 7 & 6 faders, with a few older ones mixed in.
maybe they have been modified, but the ones with the p&g hybrid seem to be working just fine. (and they stil have the shrink tube around them)
btw, i still have to send you those modules.
i've been working away from home for most of the last months, hopefully i can have somebody send them in the next weeks.
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I got mail below from Keith Skarret some time ago when I was asking price and details of faders. Please note bolded text. I think it's best just belive what Keith says ;)
The 4K fader has 2 main versions which are very similar and come in several revisions, the difference between the 2 main versions is the touch sense hybrid. Unfortunately you can't just swap the hybrid from one fader to the other as it requires some modifications to be made to the pcb. If you mix the types of fader in a console then the system will work but becomes a little bit prone to bugs the effects of which vary depending on the balance of 4K and 9K hybrids in the console so generally not a good idea.
btw, i still have to send you those modules.
No sweat, take your time.
-Paavo
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ok. like i said, i don't really know anything about this either, and it's the way the console came.
maybe all the old modules have been modified somehow.
would be great to get more input about this, there aren't many techs that really know ultimation.
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Just got an idea. It should be quite easy task to clone hybrid PCB and build few of them. I think there's no obsolete parts or at least they are possible to substitute with modern ones. Any interest?
-Paavo
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Just got an idea. It should be quite easy task to clone hybrid PCB and build few of them. I think there's no obsolete parts or at least they are possible to substitute with modern ones. Any interest?
-Paavo
Very good idea especially if it does not require big initial investment. this will provide spares for a long while.
I don't personally need these boards but the forum market place welcomes your idea very much!
;)
Mattia.
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Thank you Mattia!
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definitely interested!
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Found today "Ultimation Test Set" from Brandon McHale Designs:
http://www.brandonmchaledesigns.com/prod02.htm
The site looks a bit outdated, does anyone know is Brandon in business anymore?
-Paavo
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Ok, some progress with Touch Sense hybrid.
I'm asking a favor, can some of you please check original and redrawed schematic just in case if there's an error I haven't noticed.
Diode D1 has symbol of zener in redrawed schemo but it's ok because pin order is same.
Original Schematic (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/ssl_9k_h1_schematic_original.pdf)
Redrawed Schematic (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/ssl_9k_h1_schematic_redrawed.pdf)
And here's a sneak peak of the board: (click for hi-rez)
(http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/tn_ssl_9k_h1_top.jpg) (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/ssl_9k_h1_top.jpg)
(http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/tn_ssl_9k_h1_bot.jpg) (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/ssl_9k_h1_bot.jpg)
I've used chinese pcb factory Itead Studio but due their new year holiday it'will take some time before I'll get prototype boards. Meanwhile I have to source VC1 somewhere.
Cheers,
Paavo
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redrawn schemo look right to me!
the preview it's very very good!
please feel free to use the market place to sell it on! I will do a bit of AD for it on facebook as well.
Mattia.
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Great, Thanks Mattia!
I think it's allways wise to let another pair of eyes look even this simple schemos through.
-Paavo
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Little progress.
I'm just about to send gerber files to the factory so I should have first ten pcbs in three weeks or so.
-Paavo
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Allright, time for tiny update.
Finally got some time over night so decided to build one module to see if cloned pcb design works.
Took 3-4 hours to solder everything, one hour to modify the fader and test everything out. And yes, it does work :)
Here she is: (click for hi-rez)
(http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/tn_touch_sense_clone.jpg) (http://www.5by5.fi/diy/ssl4k/touch_sense_clone.jpg)
Very nice to have few of these as a diy kit so I can basicly use any Ultimation Fader as spare and just mod it to the same we have in our console.
Mission accomplished!
-Paavo
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Incredible! Looking forward to see more DIY spare parts for our consoles!
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Nice work!!! ;)
What does this Touch Sense hybrid board does exacly? Is it a standard touch sense circuit that you can replace it directly on top of the originals or does it offer any particular advantages?
Cheers,
Artur
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Awesome work! :)
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Thanks for your kind words guys!
The module is just a clone of the 9K Touch Sense module, so there's no any upgrades or so.
As I've mentioned earlier in this forum, Keith from Audio Recycled has told it should be avoided to use mixed set of faders in the console. Main difference I've found between versions is that 4K module uses frequency of 150kHz and 9K uses 1.2Mhz for touch sensing. 4K also used matched capacitor which is replaced trimmer cap in 9K version. So basicly I can buy an older version of the fader and modify it to 9K which we have in our console.
-Paavo
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But, sorry my lame question, can you use 9K ultimation faders on a 4k? Are the retro compatible?
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Yes, but fader pcb needs tiny modification.
I try to find some time to take couple photos of modification.
-Paavo
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Oh, I read your question wrong at first time.
I'm not sure if 9K fader modules fit straight in 4K. Anyone?
-Paavo
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I think they aren't.
Do you have a 4K or 9K?
Cheers,
Artur
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We have 4K from 1999
-Paavo
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Ok, so you're just referring to the Touch Sense electronics that's "somewhat" retrocompatible.
Is there any advatange of the 9K's Touch Sense compared to the 4k? Are they better designed, more robust somehow? I ask this because I was thinking why not to clone the 4k ultimation versions too?
Cheers,
Artur
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I've found two differences between 4K and 9K TS Modules.
At first sensinf frequency is way higher in 9K and it's around 1.2Mhz while in 4K it's around 150Khz. This let's me think there might been some oscillation problems. Secondly, some versions of 4K module needs a matched capacitor with the module. 9K doesen't use it (there's 5V regulator in the place of the cap) and it has trimmer cap to set sensitivity.
I had one fader module that had TS module by Penny&Giles. That also didn't use matched cap.
-Paavo
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If you find the time and have some spares at hand can you fire a couple of pictures of both 4K and 9K and yours side by side?
Thanks mate! :D