SSlmixed.com Forum
Tech discussion => 4K,6K,8K Series => Topic started by: marcmozart on January 28, 2014, 10:43:27 PM
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With Andy's support and computer parts becoming really cheap, I've now got all the missing parts to put the pieces together. I've had already written it off, but now I am actually very excited. In true OCD-fashion, here's Part 1 of the rebirth! More to come soon.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/mixcomputer_part01_zpsbfb9c556.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/mixcomputer_part01_zpsbfb9c556.jpg.html)
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sexy shower this is....
naked computer ;D ;D ;D
Mattia.
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Hahah.. guess is was too big for the Miele Dishwasher! 8)
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After the motherboard was removed, I vacuum cleaned it. Quickly decided to give it a quick shower as well since there are no Electronic Parts on this board, other than the capacitors. I've then replaced 10x 220uF 25V Capacitors with black Panasonic FR.
The contacts were all flushed with Isopropyl-Alcohol. This board looks like new now.
This motherboard is super-heavy and from extremely thick material.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-29092514-1_zpseedc6196.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-29092514-1_zpseedc6196.jpg.html)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-29092530-2_zpsa9a3e15f.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-29092530-2_zpsa9a3e15f.jpg.html)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-01-29092552-1_zpsd8de7e63.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-01-29092552-1_zpsd8de7e63.jpg.html)
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Love the bubbly shower!
The cherry on the top is to take a cotton wipe over the end of an old credit or telephone card with ProGold or preferred contact cleaner and condition those contacts.
Also remove a couple of the STEEL fasteners from that rack to make sure there is no moisture there. That isep rail is a moisture wick.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I'll definitely try that - great ideas! I'll probably keep using my beloved Isopropyl-Alcohol for cleaning contacts - it cleans extremely well and disappears completely. But will have a look at ProGold.
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This is the „Computer Interface Card“ that has all the connectors for ribbons that connect the computer to the VCA Faders.
It sits at the backside of the computer rack, collects a lot of dust.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/computer_interface_before_zps6c737225.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/computer_interface_before_zps6c737225.jpg.html)
Since the Computer Interface Card does not contain any electronic parts, it gets a shower, then some Isopropyl-cleaning (Q-Tips etc.), more Water, quick drying on the radiator and a final treatment with Wax and Polish.
Here we go, better than new - and protected for 25 more years. (Since I am a non-smoker, maybe longer.)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/computer_interface_after_zps7f20a6e5.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/computer_interface_after_zps7f20a6e5.jpg.html)
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Been thinking about those fans… yes, I have a machine room, but I want to try and reduce the noise and at the same time improve the cooling.
This array of 6 fans - in the top of the computer rack - is consuming insane 120W - just the fans!
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/fans_zps7d2f7aef.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/fans_zps7d2f7aef.jpg.html)
These definitely have to go.
The Fan that SSL us using... Papst 4600 N, is available online, here for 26,50 €:
http://www.reichelt.de/?ARTICLE=111016&PROVID=2257&wt_mc=amc136152448016369&ref=adwords_pla&&gclid=COWq_Ye5qbwCFTMPtAod4x0Apg
It moves 180 m3/h which is quite a lot, but there are current offerings that can move more. The level of noise is 50 dB for one of these. 18Watts. And there is 6 of them!
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/papst_TYP_4600N_Fan_zpsc1179e51.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/papst_TYP_4600N_Fan_zpsc1179e51.jpg.html)
Anyway, thanks to PC gaming good fans don't cost much these days, are very quiet and consume a lot less power than the original ones.
In addition to using modern high-tech fans, I might control them by a fan controller that measures the temperature inside the rack. I think, operating each of the different fans at a different frequency could also make a difference to the perceived sound of the fans.
Fan Controller Aerocool Touch 2100
Unboxing: http://youtu.be/ou9adwmL25A
Review (in German): http://youtu.be/sPIm7OeFxko
http://www.aerocool.us/peripheral/touch2100.htm
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/Aerocool-Touch-2100-4_zpsc34ad347.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/Aerocool-Touch-2100-4_zpsc34ad347.jpg.html)
Fan (5x) - Coolermaster 200mm Megaflow
EDIT: These move 186 m3/h at 19 dB and 3,36Watts. If that works, definitely a huge improvement. We'll see, I might need to build a costume-made top plate to use these. They are bigger.
Video Review: http://youtu.be/E5qv9RwgaBA
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/coolermaster_zpsd683fda6.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/coolermaster_zpsd683fda6.jpg.html)
I am also looking into insulating the rack with some acoustic dampening material. There are plenty of sets out there, again, designed for the Game PC Market.
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Careful with the fans dude. I know 2 guys that installed quiet fans in their racks and it didn't work out.
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Hi Marc!
Awesome work you do! You're a very meticulous guy, who was your sensei?! ;)
btw, heat is a bitch in that rack! The computer is what runs more hot. I had that idea but I was strongly advised to leave it alone, since it's very easy for you to burn it.
The noise you hear is not much from the fans themselves (of course they make noise), but also from the air (those 6 fans move lots of air) passing through the grills!
Cheers,
Artur
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and that won't change much with different fans, you need that much air.
the basic fact is that if you have an SSL board, you *MUST* have an equipment room, its part of the cost of having an SSL.
maybe with a new switching PSU and NO computer automation you could get away with it. but its still better with, what's the point of an SSL without automation.
Alan
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I was thinking about this.
Couldn't be an alternative approach to fans?
Is there any specific component in the computer rack that heats above the rest, or the heat is a overall in-case heat?
We could try something like: less fans (such as the one that Marc is exploring) and some watercooling, or a type of localized Air Conditioner?
Cheers,
Artur
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Last year I replaced some fans on a computer rack. When they are off the rack they run fairly quietly (hence them being called whisper fans) but, coupled to the 11u rack which is directly screwed to the larger 19U rack, the whole thing resonates as you know. I would isolate them as much as possible by doing the following:
1 Put some rubber type strip around the grills to isolate from the computer rack below and also above against the fans.
2 Use smaller (maybe nylon M3 or 6BA) screws than the ones fitted by SSL (4BA or maybe M3.5 or M4?) to hold the fans in place through the grill. Maybe you could use some bushes to isolate the screws from the grills and the fan holes so there is no direct contact. Perhaps enlarge the grill fan hole cutouts so that the screws don't touch them.
3 (added 3 Feb 13): Also isolate the top fan plate from the 11u rack to cut down on the noise transfer but you may need a separate earthing wire to connect the two for safety reasons.
Also, as Marc states later, you could do away with the metal top plate altogether and just mount the fans on some rails across the top but they will have to isolated from the top of the cage as well and will allow more dust down into the rack, especially if the computer is switched off.
4 The 11 rack is bolted to the large 19" rack so, put some isolating strip on the rack shelves under the computer rack (and the power supply shelves) and perhaps some on the vertical 19" rack side mounting positions so that the 11u rack doesn't actually touch the 19" rack. This also needs screw fixings which are also isolated (and smaller diameter) in some way so that there is no direct metal to metal connection (and hence noise transfer). The cage nuts are fixed into the large 19" rack so you are stuck with that but, you can use M5 cage nuts and screws instead of the M6 or 0BA ones fitted. By using M5 versions, it gives you the option of fitting some sort of bush (a washer with a protruding flange) to help isolate any rack gear fitted to the main large 19" rack.
Hope that makes some sense. Maybe I should do a drawing and post it here! It also doesn't help that SSL made the 16/0.2 brown fan wires very short to begin with. I would totally replace these with ones that have much more service loop and forget all those hard to remove sleeves over the fan contacts.
Regards from Jim Lassen
PS: Marc. Another example of excellent German re-engineering. Your examples of refurbishing SSL equipment have to be admired by all as you are so good at it.
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Personally I doubt Coolmasters won't run too long 24/7...
-Paavo
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Cool, it doesnt hurt to experiment, I mean it seems you have good watching inside with temperature... so whats the downside? :) I think computer fans run 24/7 too dont they hehe
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Hi Jim,
very inspiring and helpful - thank you! I know we've touched on this topic before. I always have a hard time when it comes to sourcing screws and the type of material you're mentioning that isolates the screws and the rack itself. I have of course experimented with some stuff like "hum-free" screws etc. but I would be thankful for weblinks to the items you are referring to!
I am still figuring things out at the moment, but I'm toying with the idea to replace the top of the computer completely, with a flyscreen (the type you would use for windows) and mount the (new replacement silent) fans on rubbers that are glued to the top ISEP rails that hold the various computer cards. The fans would be closer to where the heat originates.
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There's a way to help reduce the noise...it's simply to cut the grills. :)
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I like the PC fans I use them in a Neve Genesys that runs too hot.
A window screen will not allow the proper circulation if it is completely open. Rather than suck air from the bottom of the rack the fans will also pull it from around their frames.
I always replaced like with like as best as possible looking for a high spec for hours of operation. Pabst, ComairRotron and now NMB ball bearing style are working over 10 years constant use in a 68 degree machine room before going dry.
If I were to improve the SSL design I like the isolated original panel idea the best. Perhaps weatherstripping around the top of the rack and just sit the panel on top of that. I never measured the SPL of the panel freestanding vs mounted. You have 8 or so other fans in a 4048 rack anyway. It's supposed to make noise, thats how you know the power is on.
A word on contact cleaning- the cleaning is only half of the job. The contacts on switches and connectors should be conditioned after that. Especially switches. They come from the factory with lube on the contacts and actuator. Cleaning an old switch with whatever removes the lube with the crunchy sounds. You want to replace that to keep the switch working smoothly. Same with edge contacts. I think of it in terms of chemistry. If you leave contacts dry then the environment will determine what to put around the contact surfaces. If you use a conditioner YOU control the connection. ProGold, Electrolube, Renu, etc used miserly are good practice.
Mike
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Marc, got a spare computer top panel, can send with the other stuff if you want it.
Something to experiment with, leaving your original intact.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f23/sin-tech/IMG_5115_zpsc7c054ad.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/sin-tech/media/IMG_5115_zpsc7c054ad.jpg.html)
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Mike - as always - has killer advice. Awesome!! And yeah Andy, I'd love that spare fan panel. I can keep my original one intact and just A/B the hell out the old and new until we have the original design improved!
Mike
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Marc, cool, will strip the old fans off to make it a bit lighter.
Just to throw it in the mix.. if you ultimately decide to Re-Fan your computer. Jim has some NOS 19" Ex-SSL panels with fans that are identical to the computer ones.
Also he probably doesn’t know he has them..
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Let's see how it goes. The old fans might be still decent, I've never ran this computer, ever...
Marc, cool, will strip the old fans off to make it a bit lighter.
Just to throw it in the mix.. if you ultimately decide to Re-Fan your computer. Jim has some NOS 19" Ex-SSL panels with fans that are identical to the computer ones.
Also he probably doesn’t know he has them..
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Today, I decided to give my collected parts a test-run.
For as long as I'm testing the computer, I'm mounting it in this rollable rack for easy access:
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14160637_zps6d7fd353.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14160637_zps6d7fd353.jpg.html)
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Motherboard goes back in.
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14173246_zps460cfc3d.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14173246_zps460cfc3d.jpg.html)
Filling with cards:
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14174705_zpsd0621b2a.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14174705_zpsd0621b2a.jpg.html)
A look inside (here: motherboard connectors for power etc.)
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14180824_zps9d4e144d.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14180824_zps9d4e144d.jpg.html)
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My current experimental setup:
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14210025_zpsd0f9b6ad.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14210025_zpsd0f9b6ad.jpg.html)
All the cards and connectors a very accessible. I'll keep it like that, until everything runs smoothly:
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac155/mozartandfriends/2014-02-14210044_zps0bc1b1f8.jpg) (http://s895.photobucket.com/user/mozartandfriends/media/2014-02-14210044_zps0bc1b1f8.jpg.html)
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If you know a few things about the mix computer, please help me out in the troubleshooting thread of my mix computer:
http://forum.sslmixed.com/index.php?topic=514.0
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Thanks to Andy "sintech" I now have a complete set of working computer cards that are tested.
If all goes well we'll celebrate the "rebirth" shortly - will keep you updated and post pictures!! :-)
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go go Andy!! ;) \o/\o/\o/
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Yeah, this is what we're hoping for at Marc's end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQgZXemAKBU&list=UU4h-bJXCVct3T-WrPx4NwXw
The system disc is set up for an events controller, hence why it pauses through boot up.
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I'm actually in the middle of trying to bring our 4000 G Mix Computer online right now at Sonic Ranch. We just purchased a second computer, which was supposedly working, but does not appear to be.
Anyone have any leads on card extenders for the computer? I may have to manufacture my own in order to get this thing online.