Back Buss Question

[perfectsnd]

So I was messing around with engaging the back buss and as expected when you switch the quad buss pan in you get 4.5 dB level drop on the front. Of course, if you use the quad buss pan and go fully to the front you gain the 4.5 back as expected. Since most of us don't mix in quad and we are mostly mixing in stereo, I was thinking that it would be nice to use the back bass the way (from what i heard) the Neve rear buss is used.

I want to have my main L/R, and then by hitting the quad buss pan, I don't want the 4.5 level drop to my main L/R after I already like my level and gain structure to the main L/R and then I want the same signal going to back buss. I would the send whatever channels I wanted into the back buss, compress them to taste and bring then back up on 2 faders to blend back into the stereo mix.  I know you can do something similar with the groups, but the groups don't follow the main pans and unless you are just L/R/C it can be a bit a bit of pain to match your group pans to the main pains. I would always be keeping the quad buss pan at the C position.

So I looked at the schematic for the 611 motherboard and resistors R11 and R12 control the level drop when you engage the back buss panning.  I am assuming if I removed these resistors and replaced them with a jumper I could make this happen?

Does anyone see a problem with this? Has anyone modified a console to do this? And would there be anything technical that would degrade the sound quantity?

If think it would make the console even more awesome than they already are.  Am I wrong? We have that back buss, let's use it.

[radardoug]

Why do you want to change anything? Set up your mix with the pan pots set to send what you want to front and back buses. Then mix.
Its not hard. Much harder to modify the console.

[perfectsnd]

The problem is the 4.5 db drop in level when you engage the quad buss pan and then if you are using it the way you are suggesting and movement of the pan know changes their overall balance.

Let say I have a mix going and I'm liking the balance but I want to vox, guitars, and key to interact a bit more. So I engage the quad buss pan to send to the back buss on those channels. Now my level of the vocals, guitar, and keys in the front buss have changed. Not to get them back to balance I need to make sure I push up each fader 4.5. So I do this. Now I don't like the vocals being in the rear buss which is getting compressed, but I like the guitars and keys there.  No I disengage the quad buss pan on the vocals and now they are 4.5 db to hot. So not have to pull them down and rebalance everything. I can't see that workflow working well.

If I did the mod, I would engage the quad buss pan and my mix would stay the same. Now there is an exact copy going to back buss which I compress and bring up on the desk in two channels. Anything that I'm not feeling sounds good in the back bus, just get removed by disengaging the quad pan.  Easy.

Let talk and example with drums using the way i want to modify it. You get your levels happen, but you want to parallel compress the kit. Just engage the quad comp on the drums you want to parallel process and there is your compress buss to bring back and blend with the kit. Super simple, but also super effective.

if the group pans followed the main, then this wouldn't be an issue and we could just use busses 1-3 to accomplish, but they don't.

I am hoping you are following me on why this would be beneficial.

[axegreg]

Perhaps one way to do it would be to float the channels that are going to the back buss and assign them to both L/R and a pair of two groups on the routing matrix. Then you can bring those two groups on another pair of faders to control the overall send to the back buss compressor.

[perfectsnd]

Yes. Of course that would work and you could do the same thing by just sending them out a buss rather than floating them. The issue comes in that you now have to use the group pans instead of your main pans. It isn't a huge deal, but it would be nice to not have to do that. Also if you are using you small fader for additional sends you lose that functionality.

[axegreg]

Once the channels are floated, wouldn't their L/R and groups be controlled by the same routing matrix pan?

[perfectsnd]

Yes. That is correct.  Once floated you lose the small fader though. 

[axegreg]

Naturally, if the small fader is important to have then it wouldn't work.

[Clip6]

I'm sure you know but if you press the QUAD and STEREO monitor buttons at the same time the back buss folds into the front buss. You could use a patchable VCA for level control.

Sounds like the Bluestone mod that Clearmountain has could solve your problem.

[Clip6]

Bluestone mode PDF thanks to Phil from SSL.