Author Topic: E, G Dynamics cards  (Read 14526 times)

StefanNowak

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E, G Dynamics cards
« on: July 17, 2012, 08:44:32 AM »
Howdy,

Did the E and G share the same dynamics cards?

Did the G also have the CF82E10?

Stef.

sintech

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 12:53:34 AM »
Hi Stef,

 think it must be you who contacted me regarding my Dynamics card on Ebay?

Here's the very card running in a G channel, the tonal changes are me moving my iPhone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcdZhXZ93eo

This is the pic Card V Card:





The very early E series used a different VCA, was it ADT?? This is later DBX style, 1985-6 and recapped last week.

Then re-designed using the DBX/Thats, and that same board layout stayed to the end, with minor rev tweaks, my findings are, it's very happy in a G series 611 :----)

I've kept two spare Dynamics cards at hand, but I need to look at the bigger picture here, so.. I'll just go to one spare :(

Andy
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 01:58:31 AM by sintech »

Matt Sartori

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 08:02:55 AM »
There is a distinction that needs to be made between the Dynamics card (which takes care of compression and expansion) and the VCA card which deals with the computer VCAs.
Having said that the early version DYNAMICS card (pre 1983, but there is no definite date for when they made the transition) used a 1537A type VCA,
then the followed as Sintech says with DBX or That corp chips.

also quoting from a well respected tech:
"
Dynamics card: 
The Dynamics card is based around a VCA. Initially it was based around the B&B 1537A VCA, which came in a 14-pin DIP package. Supply variances and some other difficulties forced the design to be ported over some time around 1982, to use the dbx 2151 type VCA, which came in an 8-pin SIL package. -While there may not have been a great change in sonics at the time, the later evolutions of the SIL design by the THAT corporation have improved the performance DRAMATICALLY, and I have no compunction whatsoever in repairing broken cards with the newer THAT designs, should an older dbx require replacement.
Other than the redesign to accommodate the VCA change, there has been little significant change to the dynamics card, with only incremental tweaks to later revisions.
VCA card:
As distinct from the dynamics VCA, the FADER VCA card also went through a couple of revisions. The format was ALWAYS the 'large-can' dbx style, and earlier ones had the gold cans. Sometime around 1986, the gold cans were dropped for a replacement -also made by dbx- which comprised a daughter card containing EIGHT of the smaller SIL-style VCAs in parallel, and a low-noise op-amp to drive the control gates at a suitably low source impedance.
Also on the VCA board are a couple of other functions such as small fader buffer, and the FET switching for fader swap between VCA and small fader. There have been a good number of incremental revisions made to this board, but in terms of signal path the VCA swap has been the only one of major significance."

I how this helps.

Mattia.

StefanNowak

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 08:40:20 AM »
Yes Andy it is indeed me!!

Thanks.

Stef.

sintech

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 10:07:01 AM »
This is the Pre 1983 Dynamics card, with the 1537A type VCA, from a 1982 E console, note the grey board with silver traces. And discrete Zener power supply section missing the 15v bipolar regulator pair.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 10:11:14 AM by sintech »

guy_4

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »
Hello All,
Did some of you have experienced that after powering-on their console ( or an 8 channels section ) some channels had their Dynamics card not functioning ?
Powering-off and on again restored --- with luck --- the Dynamics card to work again.
But sometimes it happens another channel(s) that was previously working well had its Dynamics card not working ... makes scratching your head...
The problem comes from a design mistake on the 12V power supplies rails of the Dynamics card.
Both regulators ( 78L12 and 79L12 ) need to have a diode ( type 1N4148) soldered in reverse between their output pin and ground, to prevent them to turn-on their current protection mode when power is applied to the card.
I have already fixed several 4K consoles that showed this trouble.

Best,
Guy

sintech

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 12:03:30 AM »
Thank's Guy, that's amazing info to a problem, I've seen in the past. :--))))  I'll be checking my cards now ;)


 

Matt Sartori

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 08:26:45 AM »
this is great!!!


Mattia.

marcmozart

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2013, 11:27:43 PM »
Hi guys,
I have a Dynamics Card here with a defective dbx 2151 type VCA - what is the exact replacement from THAT corporation? Which are the "later evolutions" that have "improved the performance DRAMATICALLY"?

Thanks,
Marc

also quoting from a well respected tech:
"
Dynamics card: 
The Dynamics card is based around a VCA. Initially it was based around the B&B 1537A VCA, which came in a 14-pin DIP package. Supply variances and some other difficulties forced the design to be ported over some time around 1982, to use the dbx 2151 type VCA, which came in an 8-pin SIL package. -While there may not have been a great change in sonics at the time, the later evolutions of the SIL design by the THAT corporation have improved the performance DRAMATICALLY, and I have no compunction whatsoever in repairing broken cards with the newer THAT designs, should an older dbx require replacement.
Other than the redesign to accommodate the VCA change, there has been little significant change to the dynamics card, with only incremental tweaks to later revisions.
VCA card:
As distinct from the dynamics VCA, the FADER VCA card also went through a couple of revisions. The format was ALWAYS the 'large-can' dbx style, and earlier ones had the gold cans. Sometime around 1986, the gold cans were dropped for a replacement -also made by dbx- which comprised a daughter card containing EIGHT of the smaller SIL-style VCAs in parallel, and a low-noise op-amp to drive the control gates at a suitably low source impedance.
Also on the VCA board are a couple of other functions such as small fader buffer, and the FET switching for fader swap between VCA and small fader. There have been a good number of incremental revisions made to this board, but in terms of signal path the VCA swap has been the only one of major significance."

I how this helps.

Mattia.
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

waltzingbear

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 01:20:20 AM »
the 2151 has been replaced by the 2181, all info readily available on the THAT website. It is a direct replacement with a couple caveats.

There are 3 grades of 2181, one that needs adjustment for best distortion performance in circuit. The other two are pre-adjusted for low distortion. I'm not exactly sure about putting them directly in with out adjustment.

It is available in single lots from Mouser.

they are lower distortion and noise than the 2151, and clearer.

Alan Garren
Alan Garren
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sintech

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 05:05:03 PM »
Marc, got spare That 2181 and DBX 2150 (previous version to the 2151) if you need one :)

marcmozart

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 11:04:43 PM »
Marc, got spare That 2181 and DBX 2150 (previous version to the 2151) if you need one :)

Thanks Andy,
I found them at Mouser for 5 Euros, will order them there as I'm just placing an order for other stuff anyway.

http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/THAT-Corporation/2181AL08-U/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiTdvy6TSdQLIix%2fmJY3i%252bAP4VmHyBmnGQ2QhebM08SDw%3d%3d

Did you try the That 2181 in one of your channel compressors? Apparently to use the 2181 as a replacement for the 2151/2150 one or more resistors should be changed as well.
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sintech

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 11:28:23 PM »
Got some G+ channels with 2181, but change like for like, messing about with resistor changes is too much bother.

Had to tame the threshold down when using 2181 in an SSL bus comp circuit designed with 2150's (you had to add in a 47k or something  like that)

waltzingbear

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Re: E, G Dynamics cards
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 05:07:07 PM »
to correct my previous statement, the 2181 is available in 3 versions as I said, but it is 3 levels of trimable distortion. The 2180 is the pre-trimmed version.

Application note 137 is the information on replacing the 2150/1.
<http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/dn137.pdf>

best performance is the 2181a, but you need the equipment to trim it.

Alan
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio