Cutting down an SSL4000G+

[Fastfritz]

Hello all,

Nice to be on this forum.

I'm looking at (hopefully ) buying and cutting down an SSL 4000G+. I hope to install this console in my home studio on the 9th floor of an apartment building, AFTER cutting it down to size. My requirements are quite modest, and the console I have in mind quite exactly fits the bill for what I'm looking for : Its a 40 frame with left hand patch bay with only 12 fitted modules (yeah, I know, 16 or 24 would have been better) It has no computer or Total Recall or automation.

My current workflow involves stemming out mixes through 16 Protools outs => 16 analog EQs => Selectable patch switcher (SSL X-Patch) => 16 analog compressors => SSL Sigma summing => Eclipse 384 ADDA => Master

I DO NOT track anything, its a purely mixing environment. Since the console would be used ONLY for mixing, I'm exploring the idea of removing the patch bay (everything hardwired) and/or simplifying it to maybe only 2-3U and I'd ideally like to use the 19" rackspace available to install my outboard INSTEAD of the patch bay. Is this possible, and advisable?

Additionally, I was wondering if I could modify the empty bucket(s?) to install an additional 19" rack on the right hand side. I would also be leaving either the 4 empty slots, or an additional bucket as well (for 8 further channels to be added in the future, if need be)

One of the most important points that several people have stressed upon me is the dead weight of the console, so I am looking at some serious weight reduction help here.

I would appreciate if anyone could tell me what the weight of the following would be:

1. an EMPTY 8 (or 16?) fader bucket? With or without the 8 VU meters is fine, please specify which.

2. just the "stand" (feet + cross member) for a 40 fader?

3. The entire Patchbay?

4. The producers desk (NOT the engineer's table below the 12U standard patch bay)

I would really appreciate this info, if anyone has answers.

The reason I ask is that I cannot compute the required answers from the SSL physical considerations brochure.

If I can get some help to get the ball rolling here guys, I'd immensely appreciate it!!! Please chime in and help a newbie!!! There is woefully little info out there.

Many Thanks!!!

[sintech]

It’s really hard to say.

The Legs and Beams have a good weight to them, and for a small console, you could do another solution, maybe a custom 16ch, you could easily swap the steel beams for wood of the same dimensions.

Realistically.. you won't know the weight, until you take the console apart and weigh everything.. the best guess is to weigh a channel, then subtract this by the amount in the loaded frame weight. Then divide into the empty frame.

You could reduce the console down to a 4024, and fill the 12 missing channels with module blanks (Jim has these for sale) then as budget allows fill the short loading.

Like wise a 4016, but for the purpose or resale, the 24 even short loaded is a better commodity.

You could make it DAW based, and put a 19" bucket in the centre, and eight channels either side.

Personally.. I started with 8 channels and one bucket.. and then 12.. and then 24, and now 32. Again, I have this in my home studio, and the console is upstairs. I had to build it in place, as it wouldn't go up in one piece.

Here’s some collected pictures for mini console inspiration:

[Fastfritz]

Thanks for the reply Andy, I've scratched my head and come up with some figures utilising extrapolation from the SSL Physical Considerations Pre Install guide as follows.

Wt of empty 40 frame - wt. of empty 32 frame = wt. of one empty bucket of 8 369-321= 48kg
Each module is 3.3kg
Patchbay is 10% of total wt. = 37kg.

I still wish that someone could help with the weight of the legs and cross member. I'd rather keep them and the end caps, leaving the console as complete as possible, instead of making a wooden stand. I'm not going to be in a position to have to or want to scavenge parts as the entire 40 frame is wired, has meters, computer screen, computer keyboard, custom remote panels etc, and is ready for an (assumed) expansion that never took place before she was mothballed about 7-8 years ago.

[sintech]

It maybe more ideal to keep it in one piece, and just get a load of module blanks and just enjoy it.

The legs and the beams are really heavy!

[sintech]

ok.. single two bucket length beam = 4.5kg

[sintech]

Bucket as pictured with meters and faders, all bus cards = 18.5kg

[sintech]

G+ module 3.2kg

[Fastfritz]

Jeez Sintech. Thanks so much, that's way beyond call of duty. Very nice of you, and answers at least one question about weight of the fader bucket and cross member.  While I am undecided whether it will be a 4016 or 4024, and with or without the patchbay, it is a sad inevitability that it will have to be cut down to a manageable size for both weight and space constraints, as the room is small and I have at least 48U of outboard. This could be conceivably also reduced to about 37-40U once I have a console.

[Fastfritz]

Sintech, where would one get a 19" bucket from for the centre as you'd suggested? Would one cut and join 2 8 fader buckets?

How are the buckets joined together? Is it a simple job to separate them after de-looming the back?

Thanks

[sintech]

You would have to de-loom, un-screw the buckets, and then add 19" ISEP rails to make the bay.

If you have one as a patch bay, and doing a complete rebuild, you could repurpose and wire the bays external.

[Fastfritz]

Thanks Andy!

Sorry for these further stupid questions, waiting for my tech to get free from a console relocation. Till then:

If the computer Keyboard and Green CRT Monitor (685) is removed from the centre section, is it possible to install an LCD/LED Computer Monitor inside the 8 Fader wide dead space created next to the actual Master section? Assume that one can machine and build a custom panel/bezel with cutouts for the Group VCA Mutes and Solos, and a corresponding Cutout for a Monitor and/or keyboard (utilised by the Mac Pro running ProTools, not the SSL Mix Computer). Would this be possible? Would it cause any interference to the onboard electronics?

If I want to remove the entire Computer section from the centre and only retain the 651 Master, is it possible to "shift" it to the left next to the fader buckets? Is the centre section one seamless bucket, or is it subdivided into computer and keyboard bucket and separate Master bucket?

Correct me if this assumption is terribly wrong, but if the console is deloomed, then the buckets can be rearranged as I see fit? I was anyway thinking of repurposing the patch bay area to rack-mount gear and remote install the patch bay itself.

How easy is it to obtain a 8 module wide Patchbay? (Makes life simpler for me) and any idea what it would cost?

Finally, (sorry to be asking this but its been close to 20 years since I've driven one) for my purpose of using it only for mixing and summing, no tracking, how badly disadvantaged would I be if I did away with the patch bay entirely and just hardwired all my outboard to the inserts and input/outputs where I wanted them? Only I will be using this console, so only my workflow matters.

Many, many thanks in advance for any help!!!

[sintech]

Yes, why not.. I’ve wired up custom solos and cuts, all point to point, it’s just a few hours work... and I have panels here wired up already.

You just shift the 1-8 S17E ribbon over, and ignore the 5-8 S17E and Patch VCA S17E Ribbon. All the s17's are interchangeable.

De-looming, the console, all the buckets can be unscrewed and re-arranged in a new order.

Jim has maybe 3-4 bucket of eight patch bays (sitting in the stables, ontop of the blue component bins)

I’m sure he would sell these.

I think it would be a mistake to commit the inserts permanently.. you need a patch, but with a 16 console, you can maybe do that on 2 standard bays.

[Fastfritz]

  Thanks for the info Andy. Once I'm done researching, I'll give you guys a shout!!

[Fastfritz]

Anyone else with any insights on what I'm about to attempt, the good, the bad, and the ugly, please feel free to chip in. Any and all help/opinions/experiences are welcome and extremely helpful. Thanks in advance again.

[jimlfixit]

I haven't read much of this topic so excuse me for getting anything wrong here.

As Andy stated, it's not a good idea to wire the inserts permanently as studio wiring is NEVER finished, it just evolves over time. I have been wiring studios since 1987 and every one I am involved in changes over the years. It may be a year or so but it does change, especially now with more digital technology becoming the norm.

I was at a studio last week and noticed loads of patchcords plugged in. I suggested re-configuring the patchbay (Neve console with 25 way D patchbays) so that some functions could just be half normalled down to inputs if used most of the time but it turns out the owner uses it for recording, live rehearsals and it changes a lot for every session. I'm still working on his set up and will find a way to cut down on the patchcords but it will take time to find a compromise on this and future proof it to some extent.

Therefore, bear this in mind and don't hard wire anything to anything as it WILL change.