Author Topic: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE  (Read 136305 times)

marcmozart

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2014, 08:08:50 PM »
First of all, this is Mattia's place. He created it for us. And he's been very fair and kind to you.

If this was my forum, you'd be long gone + blocked if this feature was available.

Many, if not most of the people on this forum have become friends over time. We help each other out with advice, many times even free spares, and we spend a lot of our free time on this forum and refurbishing our consoles.

For me personally, there is no tolerance for the disloyal troll behaviour you are displaying here.

As a moderator of a forum  you show disrespect by slagging off gearslutz. I think it is you that has the bad attitude, Mattia.
What is it you so dislike about gearslutz? Do we need to know?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
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http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

xmax

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2014, 08:19:00 PM »
This forum is about helping each other with their fine SSL desks and keeping them
running strong and efficiently. Gearslutz feels more like a comic book store argument. 
Keep us updated on your power supply. N

waltzingbear

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #92 on: February 25, 2014, 05:45:39 PM »
Norm, please don't slag comic stores like that!

If you don't know whats wrong with GearSlutz, well, why don't you go play over there, we'll watch from over here. Later.

Norm has been developing a replacement product that couldn't have been designed at the time of original manufacture. It *needs* to be mature and foolproof when released, that is what he has been doing. Not some two bit, well it should work, project.

And he will make no profit, he may get $.02/hour for his development efforts, he better get his hard cost back. But that will probably be about it. We can't complain.

Alan
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

xmax

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #93 on: February 25, 2014, 06:09:47 PM »
Yup we are installing another "beta" unit today. And money is not everything!

jimlfixit

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New switch mode PSU comments
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2014, 10:15:37 PM »
Wow people, come on and get real.

I've just read some posts regarding the potentially new PSU that Xmax (Norman) is designing.

From my viewpoint I have the following points to make (sorry, another long message from me!):

1   Presumably Norman is somewhat of a one man band and not a large company and doesn't have the resources and timescale to design, re-design, prototype, re-design again, order long lead time parts for, deal with purchase orders and cashflow, manufacture, modify, document, market (a website takes some time!), sell and cope with service returns like SSL had (they also struggled with loads more people involved)?

Oh, I forgot to mention replying to emails and, these days, dealing with forums like this and GS, Facebook, Twitter and all that other networking stuff. All of this needs to be done almost at the same time and very quickly of course to satisfy the demand out there in SSL land. I've mentioned some of this stuff before people but, has it sunk in yet?

Therefore, Norman needs as much time as it takes to get it right before selling it and potentially getting any negative feedback if something fails. Maybe, he should not be put under any more pressure or stress until he gets it sorted. Most Pro-Audio companies, like SSL, make the mistake by stating that they can potentially deliver a new product by a certain time but, of course, it always goes horribly wrong as they gradually realise what is at stake and the implications involved.

2   Mattia started this site (and does it for nothing by the way), is a nice guy, no way abusive and does not have a bad attitude. I met him once, made him and Andy H (Sintech) some pasta here and he didn't complain about it even though he is Italian and my pasta was probably rubbish!!! ... I'm being sarcastic of course but I mean what I write!

3   This forum is not like Gearslutz (who get money) where you have all the low level, waste of time comments and petty complaint posts. Reading all that stuff takes up valuable time and more scrolling down the list to find what someone is looking for. Several members on this forum have put posts on GS and mentioned this site. It seems that the GS response was that they almost felt threatened by this website and didn't want to lose members from there coming across to here, a specialist SSL forum as you all know almost gaining one new member a week!

4     I've spoken to Andy H (Sintech) tonight and he made a good point about the legal Health and Safety issues which have to be adhered to (certainly here within Europe). If this new PSU ships worldwide, it would have to abide by all the different Country regulations. If not, someone could face legal action (PSU's could end in a fatal accident if the right protection is not in place). By all means design and make a PSU yourself but, if you sell it abroad at least, there could be legal and possibly financial complications if nothing else.

5   Over the last year there have been some potentially huge developments regarding a new computer system and PSU, none of which have actually been completed or sold as yet (although I may be wrong). These ideas have been the first major ones in almost 30 years and take time to develop. Give these people more time, especially as they are SSL types and not just companies trying to make a fast Buck.

If, or hopefully, when, a new kick butt reliable replacement PSU and computer system becomes available and affordable, all you SSL techs and owners should be happy bunnies. Heck, what do I care ... I don't even own one of those mothers any more (although I did have a 32 frame 6K for a few days before I broke it up and sold the bits).

6   At some point soon, when all this has died down, I recommend deleting some of these unnecessary posts (including this one perhaps) so that we can all just focus on the products being discussed in a rational way without all the negative comments.

7    There is no point 7 really. I'm done now apart from stating that Norman and others have probably wasted time reading this post rather than designing some handy gear for you lot.

Bye for now from Jim Lassen in the UK. PS: Still have loads of new 96 way DL connectors if anyone needs them.

xmax

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« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:35:28 AM by xmax »

perfectsnd

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2014, 07:41:29 AM »
Norman. I certainly hope you have finally gotten this together. As I have posted before, I was promised a supply a year ago, and it was going to be included with Norman's labor for commissioning my desk.  I put down my deposit. Norman came out with the supply but couldn't leave it due to his new arrangement with Shippen.  Months go by, still no supply.  In October (6 months after my initial deposit) I get a letter from Shippen saying that he appreciated my deposit but now they had another redesign and if I wanted a new supply it would be another $1100.00 more. I passed on the deal because I wasn't 100% positive on when I was going to receive the supply and I certainly didn't like the price hike.  So like I said before. Do your homework, make sure what Atomic is telling you on lead times is accurate and if possible get a provision in your order for what will happen if they don't meet it.  My experience with "Atomic" didn't go well and I backed off the product that I really was hoping for at a price that made sense originally.

Norman is a very skilled tech and has really put his heart and soul into this unit. It was working beautifully (although briefly) on my 4056G loaded 48.  We saw a noise floor drop and a reduction in the power consumption.  Norman is a good guy and loves the vintage SSL market with passion.

Norman. I wish you all the best of the luck and one day we might come full circle on this.  I truly hope that this product is a success for you as I know personally how much you devoted to it.

xmax

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2014, 10:12:56 AM »
Joe, I very much appreciated your kind words, The absolute truth in the matter is the
supply was not ready back then. It working was not good enough and Shippen was
wise enough to see we needed to wait and work the bugs out of the design.

Not only is the design ten times more solid than what I was doing back then,
but the S1 has a whole new way of protecting your desk from ANY sort of power
or power supply related issues, Also your very expensive monitors. I
don't Like to think of all the TAD components blown because of black-outs
and failed 661's! We decides it was worth the extra build cost.
 
Shippen is brutally honest in all regards, lead times included. He is handling sales.

I hope you and your family are well and you are spanking that naughty 4056 of yours. N
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 05:31:03 PM by xmax »

makeitwork

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #98 on: April 03, 2014, 02:26:56 PM »

Hello all. Shippen here.

Call me Reid, please... I'm the other owner of Atomic Instrument w/ Norman. www.atomicinstrument.com I'm here to answer questions and concerns regarding the supply, unless they're super-technical.

First- If you have any questions at all, contact me at info@atomicinstrument.com, I will probably get back to you faster that way.

My story- in short, I'm a mixer and an SSL owner. I got tired of rebuilding my supplies- Nashville's power hasn't been the best, and we get a lot of thunderstorms here. I'm also pretty busy most of the time, and wasn't too amped about downtime because the power went on & off and blew out my supplies. Again.

Plus- SSL's are expensive, and it's nerve-wracking to own a studio, as I'm sure you all know.

I met Norman thru Dan Auerbach - Dan's studio is a mile form my house, and I met his engineer Collin and we got to talking and that's how I met Norman (they're all from Detroit). I don't spend time on forums much, for better or for worse, so when Norman said he was working on a replacement SSL supply, I was amped.

And skeptical. I've worked on 4000's and 9000's for years, and when the time came to own one, I wanted the 4048E. I got mine from PAD, they did a great job setting it up, and it's been problem free EXCEPT for the power supplies. One of them doesn't like me and despite the best efforts of the Nashville techs (all great SSL guys) it would throw a rail every 7 months or so and I'd be back in the hole for $750-1000 in rebuild costs and many thousands in lost mix time. A replacement supply? Tell me more. Anything is better than this SL661 dinosaur.

Anything that works and sounds as good or better, that is. So I called Norman, we had a great convo about life and SSL's and how to do business and how things work if you're actually going to sell a product vs. just make a one-off for someone. So we decided to give it a try.

Here's the part where the process gets long... and this is where Joe (perfectsnd) and the actual process of refining a design into a product came into conflict. To be fair- I had no idea it would take this long, or that so much would change- and I’m sorry, Joe, that you got caught in the middle of that.

Norman was confident his design worked, and had talked to a few people about it (presumably on this forum) and even taken some pre-orders. A price was thrown out to a few people as well. Then we started testing. And listening, and torture testing, and redesigning, and refining, and re-testing. Not to mention case design, logos, plate printing, CNC routing, etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line for me is that if I'm going to be involved in something it's going to be 100% right from the start. As an owner, I can't afford to wonder if this new supply is going to shred my desk, or die in 3 months, or whatever. So for me to put my name to this venture, I was going to make damn sure that this supply was the absolute best supply we could possibly make.

Everything in the Atomic is custom and hand-built. The power modules are purchased from a very small company from NOT CHINA and then modified extensively. The (Norman -designed, proprietary) filter circuits are hand-built and potted. The circuit boards that are used are made locally. Other than the modules, everything is made in the USA and most is local to Detroit. Even the cardboard boxes are local, lol. Anyway- I've learned a ton about suppliers, shipping, people saying they're shipping, people not shipping, parts being wrong, etc. Weeks become months and then many months.

At some point Norman & I had to face the fact that the design worked but it wasn't perfect and we had to tell the few guys who had made a deposit that we were going a different direction. Basically- we had upgraded so much stuff that the price was going to have to increase. Now- these deals with Norman were prior to my involvement, prior to us actually forming the company- but I thought that they should be honored as best as possible. So, I reached out to everyone and basically said, "This is on me, but the supply isn't ready yet, an the price has gone up. We're sorry about that, but we're not releasing anything half-ass. So here's the deal... if you want your money back, I totally understand, and you'll have it. If you want to wait, the new supply will cost about $5k, but you can have it for 30% less than that, if you care to wait, and will be first in line" Essentially, this would mean making almost no money on these particular supplies, but a promise is a promise, so I figured this was a win/win for everyone. Some asked for their money back, some didn't. Keep in mind that Atomic had no revenue at this point- the refunds that were made came out of my own pockets. This is how we do business.
This brings us to the present. The supply work and works well, I've been running a variation of it for a year now in my studio. We have tested everything we can think of. Is it bombproof? As much as anything with electricity can be.

The best part- it sounds better. Noticeably better. Wife-and-girlfriend-who-don't-care-about-audio-still-notice better, thank god. Otherwise, I wouldn't be using it on records, I can assure you.


Some FAQs-


Why no A/B samples?
    This is my fault. I'm not allowed to post major label stuff. I should have planned for it using something unsigned but I didn't have anything that I liked at the time. At one point I had samples on Soundcloud but they pulled them for copyright. We're working on getting a good representation of an A/B with a mid-size desk. In the meantime, if you want to hear it in action, check out the new Ingrid Michaelson or Dierks Bentley records. I mixed both, all powered by Atomic.


Is this a switching supply, and aren't those evil?
    Yes, it's PARTIALLY switching, a hybrid really, and no, it's not evil. I've heard there's a raging debate going on, I'll give you my $0.02. I had a long conversation w/ Massenburg 2 years ago about switching power and he told me "if it's well-designed, it's not a problem." This is well designed... this is what we've been working on all this time. And- I'm working with it. No excess noise- it's quieter actually, at least on an Audio Precision (I have Pultecs on my mix buss, so noise is a whole other conversation). No loss of headroom- ask Ludwig or Jensen or Calbi. Is there noise up above 100kHz? Not that we’re seeing or hearing, it sounds way fucking awesome and is reliable.


Can you turn your desk on & off at will?
    Yes. I've done it over 50 times in the last 6 months alone. It still feels weird (after years of being scared to do that) but I've had zero issues. I have noticed that it takes the SSL channels about 20 minutes to come up to speed sonically after it's been off for a night. I also strongly recommend you mute your speakers. ;-)


Does it still need alignment?
     Sure, same as ever except that it’s 3 tweaks on the front panel and done. If you’re not scared of math you only need to measure at the center section once. We wish SSL had thought to have the rails reported back to the power supply (like the Neves do) but it takes the usual 20 minutes and 2 guys yelling down to 2 minutes and one guy walking.


What's the return policy?
    This is going on the site soon, I regret the oversight. You don't like it, return it in 30 days with the seals intact. Shipping's on you, refund's on us.
   
Anything else, seriously- email me. We've sold out the first run but will have more in a week or two. I'm still scared that UPS is going to drop a box from altitude and jack something up but as far as the atomic goes I'm confident in it. Like any parent you're always a little nervous but I trust this thing in my studio and that's the highest complement I can give it.


Apologies for the essay. Questions? Get at me at info@atomicinstrument.com.

thanks- Reid
 

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #99 on: April 03, 2014, 02:57:23 PM »
Hi Reid,

First of all welcome to the SSLMixed family! :D

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive info behind the Atomic PSU. It's good to meet the other half of the Atomic Instruments. You guys are doing an awesome product! :D

I have one question that I think is important for many users here in the forum. Are you guys planing to have your PSU resell in Europe? As you'll be able to see you have lots of SSL owner users eager to put hands in a 661 replacement, with better sonics, better reliability and ultimately, that lets you run at lower costs. :)

Best of success! We're here to support you.

Cheers,

Artur

Cheers,

Artur

makeitwork

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2014, 06:09:31 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome Artur! It seems I have a lot of reading to do to catch up on all the cool stuff on this forum... I had no idea about this community!

At this point- this is a custom unit. One off made for each customer, just as if you had a tech make you a passive eq or a tube mic preamp.

We're shipping anywhere on the planet. I'm not aware of any legalities that prevent this- I've bought parts and gear from all over the world and sold & shipped the same.... this supply is no different.

However- WE'RE NEW TO THIS- and if anyone out there has different information, PLEASE email me. But for now- the Atomic rocks, and we see no reason to wait any longer on shipping internationally.

For the record- it is custom built. And you'll have to provide your own power cable.

thanks, Reid

marcmozart

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #101 on: April 03, 2014, 10:22:10 PM »
Hey Reid,
cool to meet you here - I'm friends with both you and Norman on FB.

European Costumers will have to add VAT to your price, which is 19% in Germany and around the same in other EU-countries.

As a business owner, you get that money back after making your tax return. But still it's cash that has to be spent first.

I'm confident this power supply is worth every $$$ - already thinking about how to get rid of my two G-Series Supplies and Changeover for good money.

All the best to you and Norman with your venture!! It's fantastic news for the Vintage SSL community!!

Best,
Marc
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

StefanNowak

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2014, 02:19:11 AM »
Good to see you here Reid.

I'm keen on the PSU but being perfectly honest... it's not cheap. Almost a $7,000 investment here in Australia by the time tax is added, shipping, conversion and the plasma add on.

If the PSU goes down are these easily serviceable by a tech? Is getting parts an issue? You mention parts coming out of Detroit, it seems there are bespoke parts inside the unit.. that would make a quick turn around for failures somewhat impossible for someone like myself.

As much as the 661 is a dinosaur, I have 3 connected to my board, 1 has failed in the past mid session and my board worked fine on 2 supplies until my tech came out a few days later, was able to fix it with off the shelf components and I was up and running again. During the session I had no idea there was even a problem. That's the beauty of inbuilt redundancy.

I'm not trying to hammer you or be provocative, just I can't have my board going down mid session while session cats are on the clock.
 
I'm really thrilled that smart people are still developing for the SSL.

Stef.

perfectsnd

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #103 on: April 04, 2014, 05:56:39 AM »
Stephan,

What Norman recommended to me was to keep at least one of mine as a backup.  That way you could still power up and be working while the Atomic supply was getting fixed.

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: 4K,6K,8K Switch Mode PSU UPGRADE
« Reply #104 on: April 04, 2014, 09:12:24 PM »
Hi Reid,

The advantage of having a reseller in Europe:

- You have a proximity representative of the brand in Europe. Someone that can give you close assistance and support if things go hairy.
- Tthe VAT problem would be solved.
- The reseller will be able to import the goods at much lower rates (normally he imports more stuff at once)
- You don't have to deal with customs taxes, which are added to the VAT.

At this point I think it wouldn't pay off to buy an Atomic PSU, mainly due to customs taxes.

Cheers,

Artur