Author Topic: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU  (Read 11622 times)

waltzingbear

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Karma: +13/-0
    • Portland, Oregon
    • Waltzing Bear Audio
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2013, 07:12:38 PM »
agreed

:-)


the standard 4K supply works quite well, when working correctly. Its failure modes are another story. That is where the newer supplies are way better from SSL.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 07:14:31 PM by waltzingbear »
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

xmax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Karma: +10/-3
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2013, 09:05:11 PM »
I often see cases were 4/6/8k and 9000J's power supplies are not sharing the load properly
the overworked unit gets blown to bits and the other unit starts doing all the work until it smokes,
in the case of the 4/6/8k desks its trying to match 2 or 3 voltages of entire supplies with the 9k's
it's the switching modules in the power supplies, with the 9k's you just bump up the voltage
on the module that's "dead" the manual will only get you close, with the old monster 651's
you have to just keep letting them warm up then yank the beast and just try to rematch
all the voltages as close as possible, (they have a little "sponge" with all the diodes)
I have thrown out my back several times in the process, it takes hours, if anybody 
says otherwise they just gave up and said close enough! The first thing I do when I walk
into a ssl room is make sure the power supplies are right, I have seen voltages off by 2-3 volts!
I have also had to parallel other supplies. I would stick a $10 amp meter on every module
and be done with it!

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2013, 11:50:40 PM »
Hi Xmax, just wondering if the 5K console users out there (those that have survived the rush to the rack) have a history of PSU issues with current sharing. I think most 5Ks ended in radio/movie land so data might be a bit sparse.

The full pass current of each card's regulated outputs makes its way through 33mOhm power resistors on the anode side of the output diodes. I could monitor the voltages developed across these resistors to get some idea of current balance, might be a bit easier on the back.

I need to get a mix finished so time to put the partnership through its paces.

Back soon

Pat

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2013, 12:29:29 AM »
Having run the console for a few extended sessions I can report all seems well on the 5K PSU front. Full details and pics to follow, post Album mix. One thing the 5K supply's lacks is the 263V DC for the plasma metering...my next point of focus.

Pat

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 09:15:27 AM »
Quick up date on PSU stability and nominal operating temperature...

Operational  status: 32 channels plus centre section plus 'low voltage' metering circuits (no 250V DC for plasma yet!)

Period of usage: 12 hours (continuous)

Heat sink surface temperature: 34 degrees (2 ultra quiet 700rpm fans)

Location: Control Room

Importantly, the console sounds great.

The high voltage/power parts have arrived so I'm going to be building a stand alone 250V DC widow maker PSU for the plasma meters in the next few days.

Back soon...

Pat




Matt Sartori

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • London
    • Solid State Logic Fanatics Database
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 01:24:34 AM »
Quick up date on PSU stability and nominal operating temperature...

Operational  status: 32 channels plus centre section plus 'low voltage' metering circuits (no 250V DC for plasma yet!)

Period of usage: 12 hours (continuous)

Heat sink surface temperature: 34 degrees (2 ultra quiet 700rpm fans)

Location: Control Room

Importantly, the console sounds great.

The high voltage/power parts have arrived so I'm going to be building a stand alone 250V DC widow maker PSU for the plasma meters in the next few days.

Back soon...

Pat

THIS IS SO EXCITING!
CAN'T wait to see the plasma supply and some pictures of it all.
can you post some measurements, ripple, etc?Very curious !

one day maybe we'll have a community linear/modular supply for our beloved SSLs...

Mattia.

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 05:48:30 PM »
Hi Mattia, there seems to be a lot to commend the modular PSU approach, eggs in several baskets is one that immediately springs to mind. The bull dog end of the PSU, the unregulated bit that is, is still a single unit but it looks and feels nuke proof (again touch wood).

The 250VDC supply is based on a pair of parallel hi-volt Mosfets as per the original 4K design, hopefully it will hold up to job, should know very soon.

Regards

Pat

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2013, 07:44:46 AM »
Direct connection of some of the DC power looms (DIY) at the 5K backplane on their way to the 4K, no BICC connectors!

Each individual loom carries Audio +(Red), Audio -(Blue), Audio 0V(Green), Logic +(White) and Logic -(Orange) cables. While the Green and Orange cables are connected using push-on 'spade' type terminals to the backplane, the other cables go to the output Contactors , it's just possible to see the Red, White and Blue cables disappear south.

Pat

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2013, 07:51:11 AM »
...those relay driven Contactors (one for each bay on the console) that isolate the DC power in the event of faults.

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2013, 07:54:04 AM »
...all five looms connected

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2013, 07:55:28 AM »
Bam...action

Matt Sartori

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Karma: +21/-0
    • London
    • Solid State Logic Fanatics Database
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2013, 10:07:38 PM »
2 years ago Funky Junk trashed 10 modules like this...
I have tried to sell them in any possible way, nobody wanted them...
what a waste..

M.

PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2013, 09:32:55 AM »
That is so unfortunate, I'm sure there are guys out there who would have given them a good home. And you know one of the great attributes of this forum is its strength of communication amongst the SSL user community, and beyond of course. Perhaps now one or two 5K PSU units will be saved from that trip to the dump...is this not recycling in a positive way? I think in the 50's Gibson had a somewhat similar problem with the original Les Paul guitar!

By the way, I assembled and tested the Hi Volt raw supply last night, it produced 326VDC (approx. 25mV ripple/off load. apart from a 22K bleed resistor). This supply will drive the 250VDC regulator which is almost finished and up for testing later today.

Pat


PMcC

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2013, 01:20:57 AM »
Well I survived the 250VDC build, test and implement.

This is interesting, the original SSL 250VDC supply, as it turns out, had drifted upwards to about 295VDC. This gave all the plasma meter units a soft focus appearance, a bit like out of focus. The offending part was a 220K carbon film resistor that helps define the regulated output voltage, it had gone way outside its tolerance band so the 50K trim pot had no chance of lowering the voltage back to 250V. There may be a few others out there that could benefit from a very simple fix, just replace the offending 220K resistor on the PSU mother board right beside the three trim pots associated with the 250V regulator card.

Anyway I built my own 250VDC supply and popped it into an unused power and chassis, great for heat sinks, mains connection etc and hooked it up to the Console after a bench test of course. Result...pin sharp plasm metering, right on focus, a thing of beauty. Not bad for a thirty year old board.

Oh yeah the 250V (plus small change) is holding rock solid and showing 25mV of ripple at full tilt.


xmax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
  • Karma: +10/-3
Re: 4Ke PSU shot, replacing with a modded 5K PSU
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2013, 01:08:36 AM »
No, I was just speaking in general with current sharing. I have found having current meters on each "module" is the only real way (or easiest) to equally balance the voltages. as far as your 250v circuit, I would love to see your version of the ssl design. Nice Work!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 12:04:42 AM by xmax »