Reel Disk Issue!

[Eric Blomquist]

Hey everyone,
Was automating a mix on the console a bit ago.  While the mix was playing back, ssl computer beeped and read, Reel disk NOT READY...uh-oh.
I rebooted the system with BEGIN.   Computer reloaded to the point where it tries to read reel disk, and again it said Reel disk NOT READY
The reel disk will not load.
The top right corner of SSL computer screen reads PLAYING on top and MTR under it every time I reboot...which is a problem...all multitrack buttons on the console are disengaged.
I pulled everything from the patchbay (I use the whizzer to interact with a Digi Sync I/O)
I shut down pro tools and all i/o's, still get Reel disk NOT READY.
I put in a different reel disk...still get the Reel disk NOT READY.  I swapped program disks, same result. 
I put in a brand new floppy.  Hit format...it thinks for 2 seconds and then reads Error in Format
I try to label and have the disk checked first...it shows the sectors, but goes to Reel disk NOT READY before any sectors are counted down.
I shut off the moving fader power supply...same result
I receded the main brain SSL computer tower, still getting same results...

I put the original program and reel disk in.  I type BEGIN.  Reel disk won't load.  I type Name Title Test, to create a test title and it reads Directory error on reel.

What do I trouble shoot next?  This one has me stumped. 
It seems like the REEL disk is still frozen from when it was playing back the mix, since it loads with PLAYING still. 
Help is ever so much appreciated!
Eric

[waltzingbear]

not clear that you have done a hardware boot of the computer or not.

try that with no disc in place, then insert disc and begin.

report back

Alan

[Eric Blomquist]

Thanks Alan.  I left the computer and mini floppy drive powered off over night.  I powered the system back up this morning.   I inserted the program disk first, waited for that to load.  Then inserted the Reel Disk.  The Reel disk loaded successfully.  I checked the reel disk and everything (titles, setups, and mixes) were accounted for.  I loaded a recall of a song and it loaded properly.  I checked the VCA positions and a few channel strips, and everything was recalled successfully.  Then I created a new title.  a message "Disk Right Protected" popped up, so I ejected the Reel disk, moved the tab to allow writing and attempted to reload.  The load failed and Reel Disk NOT READY returned.  I hardware rebooted the disk drive and SSL computer and got the same result.  I powered off the SSL Computer and mini floppy drive for lunch.  It was powered down for about 2 hours.  Just got back and rebooted.  Loading the reel disk failed.  It still reads Reel disk NOT READY.  I hit execute and it fails and yields the same result.  What to do try next?

[radardoug]

Sounds like floppy drive problem. It might respond to cleaning. Are these original 8 inch or 3 1/2 inch drives?
One possibility is these guys.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261233274080?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I know these work in OC's, has anyone tried them in an SSL?

[waltzingbear]

there is also a potential ground loop problem. Unfortunately my memory is a little hazy on this, but, at one time there could be a ground loop formed that caused problems because the paint failed on the floppy mounting plate or rack or somewhere. ie the paint on the rack had been preventing a ground loop from forming and wear allowed it to appear.

I think the proper fix was to isolate the drive from its rack, plastic nuts, washers, what ever. For a quick test of this it can just be removed from the rack and not allowed to touch it with any bare metal connection.

But it could have been a different fix, I really don' remember for sure, but isolating the drive is easy to test. Try it and see.

One of many potential sources of problems, but an aggravating one.

Any one else remember this problem more clearly?

Alan

[Eric Blomquist]

The drives are mini-floppy 3.5.  I swapped the reel and program drives this evening.  I believe they are typically swappable, please inform me if I am wrong.  I first turned on the disk drive without the disks inserted.  Lights for both P and R drives turned on.   Normally only the R lights up when the drive is on but the ssl computer is off.  Next I powered up the ssl computer.  The R light turned off but the P light stayed solid.  Normally the P light starts blinking slowly when the SSL computer is turned on.  Next, I inserted the Program disk, and as I expected, it failed to load.  Now remember under this test, I had swapped the P and R drives.  So....it seems I am really having issues with my original R, now in P drive.  I am looking up some replacement possibilities for just the one drive, not the entire SSL unit.  Does this seem like a good idea?

[radardoug]

It would pay you to try to clean the drive. Its like cleaning a tape recorder's heads. Tricky getting in there.
They used to make abrasive cleaning discs, you might try finding one of those.
Oh, here they are!
http://www.floppydisk.com/cleaner.htm

[Eric Blomquist]

After going through a myriad of trouble shooting...I have come to a couple conclusions.  It seems that the reel disk became corrupted when I was in the middle of a mix review last week.  The Reel disk would not load, and upon software reboot, Reel disk NOT READY was shown.  Doing a physical reboot of the floppy drive and SSL computer power supply did not solve the problem.  What seems to solve the problem of getting the Reel disk to reboot is powering off the disk drive and SSL computer power supply, disconnecting the IC cable from the disk drive for 30 seconds, then reconnecting and powering up the disk drive first, then the ssl power supply.

1.  I do not understand how the disk corrupted during a mix review.  At that point, all information from the mix should be read off of the SSL computer RAM.  No information at that stage should be being read or copied to the reel disk.

2.  Reinserting the reel disk I was using caused the Reel disk drive to show Reel disk NOT READY upon loading.   I threw that reel disk in the trash.
3.  With a different reel disk....I have successfully done a recall and set up a test automation session with a couple passes of automation.  I will report back if there are other issues after I dig into the next full mix.  Unfortunately I lost everything on the corrupt reel disk, so I will be starting that mix from scratch.  Oh well, things could be worse!!!

[essentialsound]

Have you tried making a copy of the troublesome disc, then try to load the copy? 
Then you can delete particular mixes and/or TR snapshots to see if those are trouble?

Perhaps there is some kind of corruption on that particular disc?

 Just a thought.