Author Topic: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..  (Read 16335 times)

MikeSynthesizer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« on: May 14, 2014, 02:35:35 AM »
I've got a line on an ultrasonic cleaner right now and everything looks like a good deal so far.  The dimensions are great, it has filtration features, a heater, etc.  Unfortunately, the frequency is only 40kHZ and not variable.  Is this a problem? 

Will it strip off the silk screen?  Should I look for one with an adjustable frequency or are they easy to modify?


marcmozart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • Frankfurt/Germany
    • Mozart & Friends
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 11:22:35 AM »
What are you looking to clean? The grey surface of the channels?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

MikeSynthesizer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 02:07:58 PM »
I want to clean the 4PDT and 6PDT switches.. 

marcmozart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • Frankfurt/Germany
    • Mozart & Friends
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 02:26:50 PM »
In that case, remove the switches from the channel before cleaning them.

I want to clean the 4PDT and 6PDT switches..
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

michaeldtech

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • 2Q
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 07:19:57 PM »
There are a few places that do this, dip a whole channel in a pure tri-chloro- whatever filled ultrasonic tank.  You tie-back all the pots, remove the face, and dip.  Not a fan.  You have to lube all switches afterwards of course.  I sounds great for about 6-8 months and then quickly gets crunchy again.  Multiple dips will deteriorate the switch caps as well, so some remove those also.

I think some guy on PRW used a water-based solution which is marginally better as the higher molecular weight of the solution cleans better, but then you have to flush with solvent to remove water, hit with compressed air, then lube.

Many a Neve module has been ruined with this technique.
Mike 

MikeSynthesizer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 04:10:17 PM »
There are a few places that do this, dip a whole channel in a pure tri-chloro- whatever filled ultrasonic tank.  You tie-back all the pots, remove the face, and dip.  Not a fan.  You have to lube all switches afterwards of course.  I sounds great for about 6-8 months and then quickly gets crunchy again.  Multiple dips will deteriorate the switch caps as well, so some remove those also.

I think some guy on PRW used a water-based solution which is marginally better as the higher molecular weight of the solution cleans better, but then you have to flush with solvent to remove water, hit with compressed air, then lube.

Many a Neve module has been ruined with this technique.
Mike

The high quality lube in our switches is long gone so I'm not really worried there.  6PDT switches cost about $5 a piece and take a good hour to install them.  4PDT are about $1.50 and could easily take a whole day per channel strip.

What would you do if you if you had a console that looked like this?

sintech

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 839
  • Karma: +61/-0
    • Bristol, UK
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 06:24:48 PM »
Changing the switches is a good investment, having owned a really old SSL in the past, know exactly the frustration involved with switches that look like that .

waltzingbear

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
  • Karma: +13/-0
    • Portland, Oregon
    • Waltzing Bear Audio
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 06:32:20 PM »
thats a rough one, old Isostat switches. I never had much success in cleaning them over the long term. They always return to their crunchy ways. I have tried replacing them with new Isostat switches, still not a good choice. (yes that have been available, but believe me, you don't want to deal with that route, yes it was Stanler, good luck on that :-( )

The BEST way is to get the newer switch board that takes the modern form factor switches and just replace them with new. But it can be a little daunting on the cost front, how many of those did you want? :-(

time for a diy replacement board?

Alan

« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 06:20:56 PM by waltzingbear »
Alan Garren
Waltzing Bear Audio

marcmozart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • Frankfurt/Germany
    • Mozart & Friends
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 06:56:10 PM »
This looks really nasty!!! I'd replace anything that looked like that immediately. Luckily some angel at a broadcaster replaced all my EQ and DYN-switches ini 2004 (before I bought the console).

That said, try bathing it in Isopropyl-Alcohol. Keep pushing the switches in between when you filter the alcohol after a day, repeat until the alcohol is clean. With a switch looking like that, you have nothing to loose.
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

michaeldtech

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • 2Q
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 03:48:26 PM »
MMmmm!  Kyaramel!

Replacement.  If it is a G, then there are other issues to consider like the switches on the filter pots.  I say replace because you cannot compare the "confidence factors" between cleaning and replacing in the ears of the users.  Cleaning will be required every year, but the weeks leading up to a cleaning will be a lot of crunch for the users.

With what, I am not sure as of now.  My go-to switch manufacturer, Arpamax in Spain, is not answering calls or emails.  I have not tried their apathetic distributor Stanler in the UK yet.  I'll need to be real desperate to do that.  Both companies still show isostat on their sites.  I hope one of the biggies is in the process of buying Arpamax.  I checked stanler.co.uk and they are now P&P Electronics.  Calling them tomorrow for price/qty.  BTW the switches need for the SSL are Dialistat if blue plunger, Isostat if white plunger, ITT(Schadow) if plastic/phenolic body (used in later G series on EQ/DYN cards).  I saw all three types on 611's and EQ/DYN cards but only Dialistat or Alps on Bus cards.

You are in the cat-bird seat to place an order for quantity.  I would not say an hour per switch.  They are tough to get out with only a desoldering station, even a Haako.  There is not much clearance around the pins to get vacuum sucking the solder out.  The two methods I have used are: go in with large dikes and chop all switches down to pins.  Then make a jig to softly/firmly hold the module upright.  Grip a leg with forceps and remove with a desoldering gun.  The other is to heat a pad with a desoldering gun until the switch body softens and then grip and you pull the whole contact out.  I like the first.  With a big job like this it is all in the setup making a proper workspace, good jig, correct tools, non-stop tunes, no distractions, and trying a few different extraction methods to find your choice.  The first module might take a day, but the last one only a couple of hours.  I don't do it by module but by card if I have the choice.  Only motherboards or bus cards or EQ/DYN cards(make sure you make some mark to differentiate them!)

Another "fix" used by a friend was to heat a contact and plastic, grip and rotate the pin 90 degrees to a fresh surface.  Good for a quickie fix, but not across an SSL in your condition.
Mike
 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:57:17 PM by michaeldtech »

michaeldtech

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • 2Q
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 06:14:04 PM »
Just to follow-up on the switches situation.  Arpamax was dead for a month or so, but now they are back as competronic.com.  I had an exchange with Carlos Donato (carlos@competronic.com).

They make Dialistat 4P, 6P, and 8P.  Alas, the DP machine die BROKE and they are a dead product.  So no original replacement for the SSL group switches, but I think that a DPDT Isostat is a direct replacement.  I sure hope so!

They have Isostat switches in DP, 4P, 6P and 8P available loose or in brackets for those of us keeping Neve consoles alive.

Lets give Carlos some orders so that the switches are available into the future.

Mike
PS: stanler.co.uk is still in business as P&P Electronics.  I think they will do small quantities.

jwhmca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 10:21:27 PM »
Which switches exactly are you talking about? ALL of them??? They don't really need to ALL be replaced... I mean I get it but, the ones that will cause 90% of the "sound" issues are pretty easy to replace with F4UEE and F2UEE, F6UEE...

The DYN and EQ card have 3 each...

Then the "IN PRE and SPLIT"... and the 4 pack PHASE group... and QUAD Pan "IN"

All pretty easy. I can do a whole bucket in a day.
"It's all about being a servant."

marcmozart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • Frankfurt/Germany
    • Mozart & Friends
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2014, 01:50:39 AM »
Which switches exactly are you talking about? ALL of them??? They don't really need to ALL be replaced... I mean I get it but, the ones that will cause 90% of the "sound" issues are pretty easy to replace with F4UEE and F2UEE, F6UEE...

Can you post links (mouser, Digikey, ...) to those switches?
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com

jwhmca

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning of Channel Strip Questions..
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2014, 02:05:35 AM »
yeah... just pump those numbers into mouser, they will come up...

Mouser part number 611-F4UEE, 611-F2UEE etc...
"It's all about being a servant."

marcmozart

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
  • Karma: +29/-0
    • Frankfurt/Germany
    • Mozart & Friends
EQ / DYN / SPLIT etc. Pushbutton Replacement Parts
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2014, 01:48:39 PM »
Thanks, will also post the links on a new thread later on as it's important info for all of us!

Let's make sure first these are the right ones - I'll check later on which ones should be used in which position.

611-F2UEE
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/51281/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsqIr59i2oRcspXnj7fTNyJ6Mpu7raK3Xg%3d

611-F4UEE - it says "illuminated" on these??
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/F4UEE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMufv8JNQ5fVHZnX%252bxaLA5NPY622NJTR0tM%3d

611-F6UEE
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/F6UEE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxtGF7dlGNpkvuTQHbvtlSnge8p3X2G5o%3d

611-F8UEE
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK-Components/51902-F8UEE/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxtGF7dlGNpowNqRnK0sWOxGsEJnHC8X0%3d
1992 SSL 4048 G-Series
Mix Engineer Blog
http://www.mixedbymarcmozart.com