Author Topic: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E  (Read 65846 times)

DigitalMetal

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2015, 07:24:30 PM »
Thanks Marc !

I also have my own Frankenstein SSL 5000 that I've been working on for years 12 stereo (that I'll be adding more to) channels of input modules with filters and EQ's and 3 imo modules as mix busses (with the intention of adding a bus comp built into one imo.
It's been in storage for a few years now as I moved my own studio part way through the build and I haven't got it back out yet, it was all documented over at the group DIY forum but when I get some more progress I'll post it on this forum too.
I also have 2 channels worth of 4k 02 eq's and dynamics cards that I intended to rack up but never got to that I'll be starting soon too.

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2015, 10:41:40 AM »
Welcome Neil! It's always good to know a family member is joining in! we are growing day by day! ;)

\o/\o/

DigitalMetal

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2015, 11:47:01 AM »
Welcome Neil! It's always good to know a family member is joining in! we are growing day by day! ;)

\o/\o/

Thanks !  :)

StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2015, 01:43:36 PM »
Wow, this is awesome. Welcome Neil. I think it's great to have someone from the BBC here as there are quite a few BBC desks around. Of course we would be interested in every little detail you could gather about our console. I'd like to take a photo of the two custom modules in our centre section once I'm back at the studio next week. Maybe you could shine some light on their functionality. I don't suppose there is any documentation left? And of course it would be nice to know some history of our 4KE, for example from when to when it was at Maida Vale at where did it go from there and what was done on it. Feel free to PM me or just reply to this thread. It might be of interest to others. This is great. Thank you.

Martin

DigitalMetal

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2015, 06:11:34 PM »
Hi,

Yes I can probably help identify those modules so by all means upload some photos,
There is some documentation for the 4000/6000's but its not for the MV3 desk so I'm presuming that all went with the sale of the desk originally, what I do have is for another studio which would have been very similar - and I have quite a lot so I think I'll scan it all into electronic format and host it on my webspace if possible and link to it here so please be patient.
Of course let me know if there are particular areas you are missing documentation and I'll look into that first.

I also have a lot of 5000 documentation so I'll do the same for that.

StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2015, 12:26:30 PM »
Well, it's really been a while but besides a lot of touring we continued work on MV3. While my friend and studio owner prepared all the new studio wiring (thanks to Jim for prvoviding the EDAC connectors), sold the D&R Triton (which was a great desk on its own, we have another frame with a few channels in our mastering suite) and prepared the control room (new racks and cabling) I spent most of my time hunting the fault which caused the fuse resistors on the channel inputs to burn while powering on the console.
It was a PITA and in the end it was something really simple (as it is most of the time). First I realised there where two input versions using Jensen transformers. Our desk has 82E01 cards which use a very simple mic amp design using just one 5534. There is another version (82E001, spot the difference) using a two stage mic input. The BBC had an additional HF filter added right after the transformer. It's a 100pF capacitor that is connected to ground. Due to the board layout this connection is made using a simple wire bridge. This wire corroded over time and damaged the protecting laquer of the board. Because the bridge linked the capacitor to ground this caused a short of the negative supply rail (which was the line going under the bridge). This only happened on startup thanks to the very powerful Atomic power supply (which is really great to have). Well, to be sure we removed the link and the capacitor (I guess the BBC wanted to prevent any HF signals getting in the way) and the link and we had no burning resistors any more. I'm happy we finally found the fault as this was a show stopper but it took so much time and prevented me from taking care of other problems. At this point thanks to Andy for selling us a channel extender which really helped.
Anyway, last sunday the SSL moved from the room where we did most of the restauration work to it's final parking posistion in the control room. We had to remove one wall but everything went really well. We added plasmas and those fired up nicely (powered by the Atomic plasma power brick). The monitor section is still not working but I connected a pair of NS10 and brought a couple of tracks from the DAW to the board and we played around with it for about two hours. Then one side of the quad bus stereo outs stopped working (there is only a very low, distorted signal). I think the mix amp cards are ok as chaning them around does nothing. I think the problem is on the 25 card and fixing this is my next task. I think I'll try the guitar amp probing method as my scope has a bad hair day for a month now. Then I still have to fix the monitor outs and I think the 24 card has some issues. PFL only wents out when the LF monitor cut is pressed. I'm sorry I have to be rude but WTF?

Well, it's really been a while but besides a lot of touring we continued work on MV3. While my friend and studio owner prepared all the new studio wiring (thanks to Jim for prvoviding the EDAC connectors), sold the D&R Triton (which was a great desk on its own, we have another frame with a few channels in our mastering suite) and prepared the control room (new racks and cabling) I spent most of my time hunting the fault which caused the fuse resistors on the channel inputs to burn while powering on the console.
It was a PITA and in the end it was something really simple (as it is most of the time). First I realised there where two input versions using Jensen transformers. Our desk has 82E01 cards which use a very simple mic amp design using just one 5534. There is another version (82E001, spot the difference) using a two stage mic input. The BBC had an additional HF filter added right after the transformer. It's a 100pF capacitor that is connected to ground. Due to the board layout this connection is made using a simple wire bridge. This wire corroded over time and damaged the protecting laquer of the board. Because the bridge linked the capacitor to ground this caused a short of the negative supply rail (which was the line going under the bridge). This only happened on startup thanks to the very powerful Atomic power supply (which is really great to have). Well, to be sure we removed the link and the capacitor (I guess the BBC wanted to prevent any HF signals getting in the way) and the link and we had no burning resistors any more. I'm happy we finally found the fault as this was a show stopper but it took so much time and prevented me from taking care of other problems.  :-\
At this point thanks to Andy for selling us a channel extender which really helped.
Anyway, last sunday the SSL moved from the room where we did most of the restauration work to it's final parking posistion in the control room. We had to remove one wall but everything went really well. We added plasmas and those fired up nicely (powered by the Atomic plasma power brick). The monitor section is still not working but I connected a pair of NS10 and brought a couple of tracks from the DAW to the board and we played around with it for about two hours. Then one side of the quad bus stereo outs stopped working (there is only a very low, distorted signal). I think the mix amp cards are ok as chaning them around does nothing. I think the problem is on the 25 card and fixing this is my next task. I think I'll try the guitar amp probing method as my scope has a bad hair day for a month now. Then I still have to fix the monitor outs and I think the 24 card has some issues. PFL only wents out when the LF monitor cut is pressed. I'm sorry I have to be rude but WTF?  :o

I'll post some details of the custom BBC panels for Neil in a minute. For those stopping reading here, have a nice summer.  8)

Greetings,  :)
Martin
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 12:41:44 PM by StarF666 »

StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2015, 01:15:45 PM »
Ok, took me more than a minute. I'll attach photos of the two custom BBC panels and the custom BBC main meters. Neil, I hope this helps. If you could get any info or even schematics for some of this, it would be awesome. Especially panel 1 is a mystery. On panel 2 I wonder what the buttons labeled "EMX RING", "AUX RM RING", "EMX ANS" and "AUX RM ANS" once did. And I'd be still interested in some history of the desk when it was at MV3.
Tomorrow I'll be back at the studio taking care about the 25 and 24 cards. Any hints what to inspect closely on these cards? Any caps, ICs or op amps in particular?
Did I mention the studio is downstairs and has temperatures like it had air condition? We've got 35°C (95°F) outside which is quite hot for around here. Have a nice summer.

Greetings,
Martin

StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2015, 11:55:59 AM »
Just realized, I forgot to attach the photos  :o


StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2015, 12:26:25 PM »
Ok, one more photo. This time it's the back of our 24 card. We had a lot of strange behavior on our center section. For example AFL only went off, when LF was cut. I could not find any faults on the 24 card but after I inspected the backside, I found that the insulation of the resistors that are placed there went bad and caused a short. After we took care of that everything was fine. Is there a place on this forum where this hint might be easier to find for others? This, like the problem with the corroded bridges on our input cards, might be a problem with more of the older cards and desks that have been stored in warehouses or other not so comfortable places.
Further had to replace the transistor (TR10) for the dim function. Only thing still not working in the center section are the monitor outs. Main and mini are always mono, even when switched to stereo and have no sound on quad. Might be another transistor gone bad. Main outs have little to no sound on RF, might be the large volume pot. Have to take care about these things first, then I'll move on to the channels. Some of the VCA boards make noise. Any hints on this?

ULH

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2015, 04:15:34 PM »
We had some oxidation or corrosion in the solder joints on the 24 card which produced all kinds of issues. So maybe try to resolder the ones that look bad.


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StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2015, 09:08:13 AM »
Doing our first recording session on it. Mostly guitar overdubs for 2 days now. Had a burning EQ board on one channel after 12 hours, probably another corroded solder joint and some HF noise/tone on one channel that went away with power cycling / floating the channel. Day two went with zero problems. Mic pres sound great and just listening to the mix bus doing it's job is plain fun. Really need to take care of the noisy VCA boards (any hint where to start? read about faulty regulators) and order replacements for the missing ones (in contact with CML) to get the working channel count up. And I have to calibrate/align the channels (got a MOTU 828mk2 and some audio measurement software ready for that, hope that's ok).
We still can't use the plasmas though, we get noise on the quad bus once the plasma power supply is switched on, especially through the mic pres. Gotta check the plasma mainboard. Any ideas? Filtering?

Artur D'Assumpção

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2015, 09:46:04 AM »
Hi,

You are doing an awesome job! I am very impressed with the commitment to get your baby working... and as it shows, it needs looots of love! ;)

After finding all faults are you planning to go through a full recap? That will improve greatly the sound and overall stability of the electronics.

Thanks for logging everything and sharing with us! ;)

CHeers,

Artur

StarF666

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2015, 09:56:25 AM »
Thank you very much, Artur. I think it's the least thing to say thank you to everybody on this forum by logging everything for others who might want to do the same thing. And yes, it still needs some love. The desk was rather cheap and we knew from the beginning we would have to put a lot of work in it. And we're still confident it was the right thing in our situation. We learned so much about it and now we feel really connected to it. And now we are already using it and it's really great feeling that all our work was really worth it.
For the recap thing: As far as I can see, a lot of the caps have already been changed at some point. The only caps I checked with lower than spec capacitance are on the channel input cards. In the long run I plan to recap the whole desk but this will be a long term thing after we got everything else working. First will be the input cards (82E01 in our case). I'm going to recap one or two cards and see, how big the improvement is. 22-26 cards in the center section all look very good cap-wise. Or am I  fooled by the good capacitance readouts?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 09:58:03 AM by StarF666 »

marcmozart

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2015, 06:45:43 PM »
In my experience, recapping channels entirely makes a huge difference to the overall reliability of the console. Obviously the best thing is to start with channels that have obvious faults or a reduced frequency response, but the more channels I've completely recapped on my console, the less "random" issues came up.
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waltzingbear

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Re: BBC Maida Vale studio 3 4040E
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2015, 07:07:21 PM »
as a generic approach, I start with the monitor section. You will be judging everything thru that, it should be as clean and well off as possible, then you can compare things in the board and not have as much masking of problems as you may otherwise have.

Then I like to do the center section as 1) everything goers thru it, and 2) it has less parts!

Then channels, etc.

reality often makes other choices necessary.

Cheers
Alan
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